PatrickLondon

>>Switzerland is a Catholic or Protestant country and they don't want Islam to become the third national religion.<<

Not really an option, is it?

bilboburgler

When you say a large poppulation of muslims are we talking 10% or 0.01%? I'm just curious about the facts.

kleeblatt

Hi Jay_G:

I agree about the single spokesperson but we rarely see or hear Muslim spokespeople on national TV.

Hi Patrick:

You may be right about that.

Apres_Londee

>>>I agree about the single spokesperson but we rarely see or hear Muslim spokespeople on national TV<<<

This isn't TV and it's a Canadian group, but the Muslim Canadian Congress is a moderate leftist organization that promotes secularism and egalitarianism, and denounces all forms of violence, extremism and hatred. The founder makes regular appearances on public TV here in Canada, writes editorials, etc.

http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org

I'm sure similar organizations exist in other countries, we just never hear much about them.

lauralamb

I guess European and US muslims think generally it is better not to have minarets on their mosques in their respective parts of the world. It's all about sensitivity and a bit of give and take and communication. That's better than going around banning things IMHO.

logos999

Those with sensitivity are never a problem. Those that shout "discrimination", "equal rights" and "Nazi" are the problem.

They've never experienced any real discrimiation in Switzerland, maybe that's why they dare to shout.

altamiro

Any connection between building or not building a minaret and radicalization of a muslim group is ridiculous. There are already mosques, and it's not like they are eating Christian babies now. Why should this change?
Also, "dotting Swiss landscape" is another ridiculous idea. The Muslim population is almost exclusively urban, the 3 muslims living in Stein am Rhein or Appenzell will not have the money, time or need for anything with a minaret. If a mosque with a minaret is built it will be in Zürich West or similar areas, which are as different from "Heidi landscape" as you can get.
I hope the idea is rejected at the polls. The Swiss should have enough good sense to recognize the SVP ploy: a ban will engender intensive reactions abroad, which will drive even more voters into the arms of the SVP which makes itself out to be the champion of Swiss independence and autarky.

bilboburgler

Well in 2001 the population was 4.6% Islamic according to Wiki

Cries_Van_Notebook

Here is what I think, and this is based upon what I see in Philadelphia concerning not only mosques but Evangelical Hispanic churches:

In the past, parishioners built churches themselves. (We still see this in the area around Philadelphia were there is a large Amish population because these people still know how to build a church. The Amish are also VERY rich.)

Today, the average parishioner doesn't know how to build a church (or mosque). It costs a lot of money to build a new church or mosque when you have to pay for labour, an architect, and building materials. That is why I think so many Muslims and Evangelical Hispanics have turned storefronts into places of worship; it is all they can afford.

I can't see a small, poor, urban population of Muslims being able to afford to build a minaret and new mosque.

Thin

Dayenu

"As tourists, would it bother you to see minarets dotted about the Swiss landscape?" - yes, it will. By the way, in San Francisco, there is a mosque close to where I live. Just a regular building they've bought or rented, it was there before, made a prayer place now.

"I can't see a small, poor, urban population of Muslims being able to afford to build a minaret and new mosque" - you mean people like Harrod's owner will not donate money?

helen_belsize

Schuler, when and where did you see people wearing burka like garments in London? The reason I ask is that when the hot weather and Ramadan hits the middle east, London has an influx of people including women from the Middle East who wear their traditional garments in London. Sometimes even the leather face mask.

In residential areas as CW says you will see some communities wearing traditional costumes. It is largely the older people. If they are refugees from a violent conflict like the Somalis then people try and gain some control by hanging on to traditions. At the same time they diligently take their children to and from local schools dressed in school uniform. For festivals children dress in traditional costumes.

Some younger Muslims women started to wear headscarves as a protest about the comments about their religion. I think like wearing black in southern Europe that wearing traditional dress is also done at significant periods of life.

I don't think tourists to Switzerland will mind about a few minarets in towns but I think you should hide the posters of the SVP they will have a far stronger negative effect.

As both Austria and Switzerland have United Nations organisations based there presumably provision for muslim UN staff has been the norm or a long time.

Cholmondley_Warner

"I can't see a small, poor, urban population of Muslims being able to afford to build a minaret and new mosque"

You have actually hit the nail squarely on the head.

What tends to happen is that Saudi Arabia pays for it - with the condition that the mosque follows the Wahabi version of Islam (as in Saudi Arabia).

Now I'm no Islamaphobe, but I don't want Wahabism becoming a strong voice as it is all the negative elements of Islam and none of the positives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

Incidentally I would feel the same about militant christianity taking over (as it has in parts of the states).

Karen101

Forget 'not speaking the language and smaller things' though they are important. The most important thing is this will encourage Muslims to gain power gradually and then have their way in just about any issue in future, and then go on to impose their will on others, and then finally get an upper hand. Well many will ask "is this really true?". Well look at several regions of the world like countries in Africa, Kashmir etc - first migrate, then multiply, then finally occupy. Its not a big problem if Muslims mix with people of other religions and if Muslim Girls are under Muslim law allowed to marry Non-Muslim men of their own free will, and so on - But thats not the case. Do Muslim countries permit building of churches?, leave alone elaborate church towers - No they dont and will not. Does the United Nations go about threatening Muslim countries to allow building of Churches and Church Towers? - No. This discrimanatory attitude should be pointed out to the United Nations. There should be a million signatures collected in switzerland forcing the United Nations to persuade the Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and Gulf Countries to allow construction of churches, Synagogues, Buddhist and Hindu Temples - If they want to blame Switzerland on this issue. Equality should not be a discrimatory one way traffic.

Karen101

Forget 'not speaking the language and smaller things' though they are important. The most important thing is this will encourage Muslims to gain power gradually and then have their way in just about any issue in future, and then go on to impose their will on others, and then finally get an upper hand. Well many will ask "is this really true?". Well look at several regions of the world like countries in Africa, Kashmir etc - first migrate, then multiply, then finally occupy. Its not a big problem if Muslims mix with people of other religions and if Muslim Girls are under Muslim law allowed to marry Non-Muslim men of their own free will, and so on - But thats not the case. Do Muslim countries permit building of churches?, leave alone elaborate church towers - No they dont and will not. Does the United Nations go about threatening Muslim countries to allow building of Churches and Church Towers? - No. This discrimanatory attitude should be pointed out to the United Nations. There should be a million signatures collected in switzerland forcing the United Nations to persuade the Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and Gulf Countries to allow construction of churches, Synagogues, Buddhist and Hindu Temples - If they want to blame Switzerland on this issue. Equality should not be a discrimatory one way traffic. --- If Muslims change their law to permit mixed religious marriages, then automatically AT LEAST their children(who will study in local schools) will be sure to integrate, and thus the basic fundamental culture of Switzerland(free thinking, freedom in general which leads to healthy human development) will be preserved.

degas

"Personally, I wish there was a spokesperson for the Islamic religion that would publicly declare all the positive things the muslims do and show public distain for the negative things.'

Good point. So, go ahead, name some good things?

wellididntknowthat

>Being naked in public is not a crime here. (Don't ask me how I know this).<

Is that true? Are there different laws about this in Scotland and down South. This naked rambler bloke never seems to avoid falling foul of the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough

Apres_Londee

>>>first migrate, then multiply, then finally occupy<<<

>>>Good point. So, go ahead, name some good things?<<<

I just love logging on to fodors and getting to read a bunch of racist bullshit.

Cholmondley_Warner

Why are Americans so virulently racist? And, more to the point, why do Fodors give them a platform?

It disgusts me.

Nikki

CW, didn't you recently say that the best way to deal with people espousing the kind of ideas you describe was to hold them up to the light?

trickiewoo

Schuler, surely the solution to this problem is to allow the construction of mosques ONLY built in a traditional, Swiss style. If they can worship now in rented halls and private homes, surely they can worship in a religious building that fits into the traditional architectural landscape. Perhaps this is the time for a national architectural board (perhaps you already have one) to make stricter guidelines about the style of new buildings. Obviously, there will not be half-timbered styles in the financial district in downtown Zurich, but there could be a categorical ban on styles other than <<office modern>> or traditional Swiss. This is a sticky problem, and regardless of what people are saying about prejudice there is some truth to these worries.