Renting Paris Apartment in 2016
Oct 7th, 2016, 12:51 PM
#81
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<<why are you so willing to believe that the websites you list operate in some officially sanctioned capacity? Declared official by whom other than their marketing department? You seem very willing to ignore the information on the City of Paris´ own websites (those which do not end in .com) and prefer to embrace information from those selling the Paris Visite and cabaret tickets. >>
I don't see you adding the 'official' official website link and my point was to do what any tourist would do and google search. If the authorities (again) are too doltish to ensure their 'official' site appears at the top in a simple search then (again) people will not get the correct information.
As for 'living under a rock' - most of the world don't live in Paris New York or Berlin. This is certainly not news where I live most of the year in SE Asia. Some places are encouraging the use of Air BnB as they don't have enough hotels to accommodate tourists (Hobart in Tasmania is an example). It's not the big news the Eurocentric among you seem to think it is.
I don't see you adding the 'official' official website link and my point was to do what any tourist would do and google search. If the authorities (again) are too doltish to ensure their 'official' site appears at the top in a simple search then (again) people will not get the correct information.
As for 'living under a rock' - most of the world don't live in Paris New York or Berlin. This is certainly not news where I live most of the year in SE Asia. Some places are encouraging the use of Air BnB as they don't have enough hotels to accommodate tourists (Hobart in Tasmania is an example). It's not the big news the Eurocentric among you seem to think it is.
Oct 7th, 2016, 06:25 PM
#82
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I'm not "living under a rock". There are the articles about the housing shortage here, and often it mentions Airbnb as an aside but it doesn't seem to make the headlines like the uber controversy. And perhaps I am unusual, but I don't generally read the local newspapers of wherever I'm heading. As it doesn't show up in the first couple of pages of Google (and more importantly) on the tourist websites of in the guidebooks, I don't think one can reasonably expect all tourists to know about the local controversies. It's not a given- as blueeyedcod mentioned, there are places that encourage it; there are even US cities that have Airbnb-friendly laws. And I consider myself to be a fairly in depth researcher when it comes to traveling. Most of my friends and family would book a well reviewed spot and then not think anything more of it. Or they hear about some sharing economy site (Airbnb, uber, Lyft) through word of mouth and decide to give it a try. I can see how they would think it would be a legal option- because Airbnb and those rental companies are heavily advertised in a variety of mediums. Most people I know aren't going to come to a forum like this, so I'm pretty sure these forums reach a tiny percentage of all travelers.
As a tourist, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I don't really care for the sharing economy. My objection is not that it's "stealing" money for the taxis or hotels, or that it might or might not be moral. It doesn't fit my style of travel and/or safety is a concern as I frequently travel solo. But I don't really care if other tourists take advantage of those options. And they are unlikely to experience anything negative in doing so. Uber and Airbnb would not survive if many people did not find those services enjoyable and a good deal. If, as a local, it upsets you that much, then get involved at the local level. If you make it hard (instead of really easy) to reach the supply of apartments, then the problem will mostly vanish. City officials in my experience are less concerned with affordable housing and more concerned with tourist and real estate development dollars.
Woinparis- I don't even know what to say about you and your friends. How is cheating on one's taxes and then overcharging customers being morally superior simply because they did not publicize it? A wrong is wrong whether or not it is public (and I dearly hope they get caught. I trust my vets and kennel owners and would be deeply disgusted if they did something similar).
As a tourist, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I don't really care for the sharing economy. My objection is not that it's "stealing" money for the taxis or hotels, or that it might or might not be moral. It doesn't fit my style of travel and/or safety is a concern as I frequently travel solo. But I don't really care if other tourists take advantage of those options. And they are unlikely to experience anything negative in doing so. Uber and Airbnb would not survive if many people did not find those services enjoyable and a good deal. If, as a local, it upsets you that much, then get involved at the local level. If you make it hard (instead of really easy) to reach the supply of apartments, then the problem will mostly vanish. City officials in my experience are less concerned with affordable housing and more concerned with tourist and real estate development dollars.
Woinparis- I don't even know what to say about you and your friends. How is cheating on one's taxes and then overcharging customers being morally superior simply because they did not publicize it? A wrong is wrong whether or not it is public (and I dearly hope they get caught. I trust my vets and kennel owners and would be deeply disgusted if they did something similar).
Oct 7th, 2016, 10:32 PM
#83
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Locals have gotten heavily involved - as has the hotel industry -this is why the new laws were passed in July 2016. What you fail to understand is that implementing laws in France takes time, not nanoseconds.
The sharing economy will eventually bottom out, after the people who started these businesses get rich enough or move on to other ideas. What happens afterwards is that there won't be any tax money paid for the duration of their business, and the results will be reflected in the City's infrastructure, as well as for things like retirement plans for the people who were foolish enough to work for these companies.
The sharing economy will eventually bottom out, after the people who started these businesses get rich enough or move on to other ideas. What happens afterwards is that there won't be any tax money paid for the duration of their business, and the results will be reflected in the City's infrastructure, as well as for things like retirement plans for the people who were foolish enough to work for these companies.
Oct 8th, 2016, 12:29 AM
#84
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<What you fail to understand is that implementing laws in France takes time, not nanoseconds.>
If it was truly urgent - they would act.
The sharing economy will not bottom out. It has tapped into a whole new market of people who want different experiences - not the bog standard hotel (and no matter how much funky art is on the walls and how many Nespresso machines are in the rooms, a hotel is still a hotel). A lot of the people who started these businesses are just regular folk - especially retirees - who are tapping into an income stream which was formerly unknown.
Of course the hotel industry would be involved. It's taking business away from them. If their product were more affordable, they wouldn't have a problem.
If it was truly urgent - they would act.
The sharing economy will not bottom out. It has tapped into a whole new market of people who want different experiences - not the bog standard hotel (and no matter how much funky art is on the walls and how many Nespresso machines are in the rooms, a hotel is still a hotel). A lot of the people who started these businesses are just regular folk - especially retirees - who are tapping into an income stream which was formerly unknown.
Of course the hotel industry would be involved. It's taking business away from them. If their product were more affordable, they wouldn't have a problem.
Oct 8th, 2016, 02:33 AM
#85
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Got it Mme Perdu.
Take Auschwitz :
Nazi one shoots a Jew (say my great aunt). He says : I obeyed orders
Nazi 2 shoots my great uncle. He says : I did it because i like it.
Nazi 1 is a hypocrite.
Nazi assumes his choices and is just a sociopath.
Now you get off my high horse and you translate it to the vets or the tourists.
You come to Paris and rent illegally and say 'yes it is illegal but I do it we can share a beer.
You rent illegally and you say it is ok because it is not your problem but somebody's else then you don't drink with me.
My moral standards are thus higher because I don't do it and I am smarter than most because I can absolve thieves who are not hypocrites.
See ? You understand ! (Now you can say I am crazy and arrogant it doesn't bother me ;-)
Take Auschwitz :
Nazi one shoots a Jew (say my great aunt). He says : I obeyed orders
Nazi 2 shoots my great uncle. He says : I did it because i like it.
Nazi 1 is a hypocrite.
Nazi assumes his choices and is just a sociopath.
Now you get off my high horse and you translate it to the vets or the tourists.
You come to Paris and rent illegally and say 'yes it is illegal but I do it we can share a beer.
You rent illegally and you say it is ok because it is not your problem but somebody's else then you don't drink with me.
My moral standards are thus higher because I don't do it and I am smarter than most because I can absolve thieves who are not hypocrites.
See ? You understand ! (Now you can say I am crazy and arrogant it doesn't bother me ;-)
Oct 8th, 2016, 02:38 AM
#86
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Moral standards are about assuming responsibility and not hiding
Doesn't change much in Dachau but a lot in rentals.
That is why we drink beer in the street from the bottle and bottle hidden by brown paper elsewhere.
Doesn't change much in Dachau but a lot in rentals.
That is why we drink beer in the street from the bottle and bottle hidden by brown paper elsewhere.
Oct 8th, 2016, 06:56 AM
#89
To lighten the mood, I offer Chapter 1 of my Paris report, during which I don't admit to criminal activity, nor did I meet Wo for that beer. I walked a lot, as usual:
http://www.travelgumbo.com/blog/50-years-later-paris
http://www.travelgumbo.com/blog/50-years-later-paris
Oct 8th, 2016, 07:15 AM
#90
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Mmeperdu- loving it so far! Lovely photos. I actually get my attack of nerves when planning- I overthink really ridiculous things that I realize are ridiculous when the trip becomes "real". I cannot believe you went to live and work in Paris at 21- that is about 4 years before I got up the nerve to travel solo
looking forward to chapter 2!
So, what is it about laundromats that draws you to them?
looking forward to chapter 2!So, what is it about laundromats that draws you to them?
Oct 8th, 2016, 07:24 AM
#91
"..what is it about laundromats..."
I like clean clothes, I like doing laundry wherever I am, especially a laundry adventure where I may not completely understand the instructions but there will always be a nice person to help. What could be better in the realm of human relations?
I like clean clothes, I like doing laundry wherever I am, especially a laundry adventure where I may not completely understand the instructions but there will always be a nice person to help. What could be better in the realm of human relations?
Oct 8th, 2016, 10:58 AM
#92
Most of the Paris vacation rental apartments I have stayed in and researched over the years have had one week minimum rental periods. Surprised to see that the average stay is 2.5 days. When I stay somewhere for more than a few days, I really prefer apartments over hotels. This is true whether I am in Paris or elsewhere, and it has been true for thirty years. That is why this new situation in Paris makes me so sad. If I have to stay in a hotel, it is much, much less likely that I would go to Paris for two weeks as I have in the past.
Oct 8th, 2016, 11:41 AM
#93
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Nikki- I can understand that. If I did not eat out so much, I would probably do an apartment as well- my trips to cities are rarely less than a week, so the 2.5 average surprises me as well. Unless perhaps people frequently go to Paris over a long weekend? I don't really think the sharing economy will die as quickly as the other poster said- I think there are too many people like you who do it for the sheer convenience. Prices may go up, but it IS Paris. Not really budget to begin with!
Mmeperdue- mmmm clean laundry. A very simple pleasure in life! I am glad there are other travelers who do laundry on vacation- I run into so many people who suggest packing more or wearing dirty stuff
I just misunderstood you initially- I thought you didn't do laundry, you just stuck your head in to check it out lol. How long did you live in France?
Mmeperdue- mmmm clean laundry. A very simple pleasure in life! I am glad there are other travelers who do laundry on vacation- I run into so many people who suggest packing more or wearing dirty stuff
I just misunderstood you initially- I thought you didn't do laundry, you just stuck your head in to check it out lol. How long did you live in France?
Oct 8th, 2016, 10:37 PM
#95
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Regarding the "2.5 night average stay" - perhaps this is due to people just staying the weekend, or this could be due to the fact that they are filling "holes" in someone's calendar and have to move to other apartments.
Oct 8th, 2016, 11:16 PM
#97
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MmePerdu - I too loved your memories. I was 4 years old when you went there to live and didn't see Paris for the first time until 1984. I can only imagine how it was back then - just 20 years after WW2. Thanks so much for sharing.
Oct 9th, 2016, 06:36 AM
#98
"...just 20 years after WW2."
I think of that fact often, now, though I didn't at the time. I was born in '45 so to me, then, it was literally a lifetime past. You're the first other, Blueeyedcod, to put it into perspective, or at least to say it.
I think of that fact often, now, though I didn't at the time. I was born in '45 so to me, then, it was literally a lifetime past. You're the first other, Blueeyedcod, to put it into perspective, or at least to say it.
Oct 9th, 2016, 01:35 PM
#100
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Mme. Perdue,
I enjoyed your photos and memories also. Your first visit was the year I was born. My mother had me at 16 and never finished high school or travelled out of the United States. I am amazed still at the things I have been able to see and the places I have visited. I hope to be like you and still going to the places I love in 20 years. At the top of that list is Paris. We will be there again in June. I know we are arguing about apartment rentals here but I loved your memories and wanted to share that.
Lisa
I enjoyed your photos and memories also. Your first visit was the year I was born. My mother had me at 16 and never finished high school or travelled out of the United States. I am amazed still at the things I have been able to see and the places I have visited. I hope to be like you and still going to the places I love in 20 years. At the top of that list is Paris. We will be there again in June. I know we are arguing about apartment rentals here but I loved your memories and wanted to share that.
Lisa
