StCirq

<<Still holds!! Will he come??>>

I certainly hope so. He's delightful.

And Wo - as you know, we're in Paris the 21st and 22nd of Octobre. If you're still up for a meet-up let us know.

Belinda

Wo's description of local life is just one of many stereotypes. My friends (in the 18th) are childless and some even single. We meet for drinks at neighborhood cafes, take in some local jazz, even work from other cafes on our laptops courtesy of free wifi.

I have been to Paris five times this year and will return for five weeks at the end of November. I can't imagine staying in a hotel.

I'm also by far the quietest person in my building and although I will never be considered a Parisseane I think I'm pretty recognized in the neighborhood.

justineparis

Well I love hotels.. and I have had the opportunity to stay with relatives in their apartment.. for months at a time.. ( and they have an elevator ) over many decades.

I love having my bed made.. and I love eating out for every meal.. ( although its nice to have a mini fridge in hotel for drinks and yogurts).. and I love clean towels.. and I love not having to put up with a lumpy mattress to be polite.. lol

I also stayed with a friend who had just moved into her own apartment in Paris when she was 23.. she lived just outside paris before.
It was a walk up.. with the shared bathroom in the hall.. and the tiniest kitchen I had ever seen in my life( she was not in the same income bracket as my older relatives..lol) ..

Anyways for me.. apartments are so over rated.. but I get some folks NEED the extra space ( going with children for instance.. although I have taken my kids and stayed in hotels.. we never did that with all of them.. just one on one), or they are staying for a month or two.. but I really hate the "living like a local " chant I hear when some tourist says they are going to Paris for a week or so and want to rent an apartment.

Sure.. they want to go to the market and cook some fresh food.. fine. but that's not all the locals do.. they eat Picards( frozen food) because they are late home from work.. and they eat McDonalds too..

You are not living anything like a local I know.. you are a tourist .. living in an apartment for a week.. and I knew poor student locals. .and rich older locals.

Whether apartment rentals were legal was not in the news until the last few years..but most anyone who goes on travel forums now is aware of the issue.. however there are still many visitors who do not go on travel forums.

marvelousmouse

LOL, yes. I have had friends who come to visit me and when I ask what they want to do or see while they are here, they say "whatever you would be doing." Well, what I would be doing is going to the grocery store, buying soup from the deli,and watching Netflix at home because I'm exhausted. I'm sure that's not what they had in mind. But I love playing tourist when I have visitors- it gives me a chance to see where I live in a new way.

It does strike me as amusing that some of the same people who would tell some folks here to not "live like locals" are the probably the same individuals who will turn around next week and chide someone else to not visit such and such as it is such an overrated tourist trap and no local would ever step foot in there. It's always odd to me when "tourist" is treated like a dirty word.

fuzzbucket

There are tourists and there are tourists...

Tourist activity has changed dramatically - though there will always be those who consider that they don't resemble the masses in any way.

It seems that "modern tourists" want "the best"- and want it in a nanosecond. Most don't bother doing any research beyond a quick Google check, then make their way as best they can when they arrive. Or, some might come on travel forums like these - where someone might or might not have actual fact-based information that will help them.

Someone once made a distinction between "tourists" and "travellers" - basically, the tourists want to hit the highlights of a place and have done with it, while the travellers want a much deeper cultural experience.

I think the tourists are in the majority, probably due to the pervasive herd mentality that is the curse of social media.

rouelan

Hi Belinda, I have been living in Paris for more than 30 years (with some spells abroad) and you may be more local than I am.
Is it because I still am à redneck as many parisians, taunting cars with 75 reg plate when I was young ?
Is it because I travel à lot and I equally feel at home in many places around the world, looking forward to be there and equally being happy to be back home.
Or is it just I am so lucky to live in à place that is so appealing. After such à long time, I never get tired of walking around, waiting for the 1st sunday to visit musuems, enjoy seeing tourists. It may sound silly for a local but, I happened to be on avenue de l'Opera last night, for the umpteenth time. I just stopped, completlety caught with the beautiful view of palais Garnier.
Am I à local, à tourist, à traveller?
I just dont care, I enjoy and hope to share my love with Paris, despite noise, dog s**t, CGT SUD strikes, grumpy car drivers, and 1000s of nuisances

tuscanlifeedit

We began staying in apartments PURELY because they were cheaper than hotels of comparable quality.

fuzzbucket

Well, hopefully most of the rental apartments will not be available in Paris in the near future.

People used to save up for a couple of years before they could afford to go on a decent vacation.
Perhaps this is a good idea which more people should take into consideration.

rouelan

Fuzzbucket, probably pointless to ask but I suppose That when You travel, You dont Fly Ryanair, Volotea, Vueling, Norwegian or any member of the bunch of tax evaders? Do you ?

tuscanlifeedit

fuzzbucket, you sound presumptuous and self-righteous.

I hope I'm misreading you.

fuzzbucket

Of course when I travel I look for bargains. It would be unnatural not to do so. But I also put aside money all year long so that I don't have to deprive myself when I do travel.

My point is - for the judgmental among you - that nobody should break the law to save a buck. That's essentially what you do when renting apartments in Paris.

Another point is that tourists got along very well in the days before apartments became available. When European families go on vacation, they usually stay in "gites" in the country or rent cabins or even camping-cars. They save up and often go with another family or two to make things even more affordable.

Now it is time for everyone to get used to budget and moderately-priced hotels again.

rouelan

My point is that you do exactely the same when you fly on a lo-co. You deprive law abiding airlines from customers and jobs with social charges and taxes that go with, just because you want to save money

justineparis

rouelan.. low cost airlines pay their taxes.. or are fined.. its not like they can completely hide their income like many apartment owners do.. completely lie and collect all that revenue tax free.

PS Vueling is not some discount airline. its one of Spains biggest airlines.. and they are just as law abiding as any other airline.. same with all the well known lo cost airlines.. you are acting like they are all flying under the table.. how do you know this to be true?

Social benefits.. welcome to the real world.. many industries are completely legally run.. pay their taxes.. and don't give their employee special extra benefits.. you want to change the world?

As for jobs.. those lo cost airlines employ thousands of people.. not sure what you mean by your complaint..

Envierges

"When European families go on vacation, they usually stay in "gites" in the country or rent cabins or even camping-cars. They save up and often go with another family or two to make things even more affordable."

A lot like American families travel in the continental US. And when European families vacation in the US they're apt to rent illegal apartments in New York City, Miami Beach, San Francisco.

tuscanlifeedit

My experience is that the ONLY people I know who rent illegal apartments in NYC are not from the US.

marvelousmouse

Oh come on, fuzzbucket. I really don't think tourists in the 1800s (or any other time period) were much different from tourists now. How you go somewhere has changed, and how many people can afford to do so has changed, but people's appreciation or interaction with where they are has not. Back then there were books and drawing room conversations- now there are videos on YouTube and city websites and your Facebook feed. Something that leaves me cold night be the highlight of another person's trip or vice versa. Money and how long you save up for a trip has no impact on that. It's all about your mindset and your interests. A tourist is someone who travels for leisure pursuits. It's a subcategory of traveller- someone who goes from point a to point b.

And the idea that everyone wants "the best" is ridiculous. I've stayed at hostels and luxury hotels and everything in between. There is no "best". It's whatever suits your purposes at the time. I know both budget travelers and elitist travelers that rent apartments. Could be same reasons, could be different reasons. I haven't noticed it being a class issue at all. I actually think it's more likely that your "travelers" are renting the apartments- because if you travel frequently, you get sick and tired of hotels. Your "tourists" are probably over at the Ritz because it's the hotel that all of the guide books have in common. Next trip, the people in the apartment might find a hotel to try and the people at the Ritz might decide it would be fun to stay in an apartment in an residential area. If we blamed it all on herd mentality, everyone would travel exactly the same way. They don't, and I would argue, never have.

MmePerdu

You're preaching to the choir, marvelousmouse, and the Fuzz doesn't sing.

And I like Envierges' "when European families vacation in the US they're apt to rent illegal apartments". Good one.

buferson

And that's why my community in the US is fighting like crazy to enforce our rental regulations. We do not want our quiet community being taken over by a beach party. I know what it's like and understand that the people of any city and their government get to make the rules, not the visitors.

MmePerdu

"We do not want our quiet community being taken over by a beach party."

Interesting. My community has any number of Airbnb listings, no loud parties in sight. If you didn't know we were here, you wouldn't know we were here.

But do keep working hard, buferson, and fighting like crazy, and watching, and reporting no doubt. Your quiet community needs you, your country needs you.

marvelousmouse

Lol, mmeperdu. I should have resisted hitting the post button, I know, but he/she got my goat with that elitist tourist spiel. It's like reliving any number of exceedingly tedious discussions I've had with certain relatives.

I liked envierge's point too. Great zinger. Judging by some of the posts I've seen on the US boards, many European tourists are just as misguided about the US as us uncultured, unwashed American masses are about Europe