Je suis Charlie
Jan 9th, 2015, 11:54 AM
#143
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So Frank--The Roman Catholic Church (founded no later than Pentecost 33 A.d. or thereabouts) is a heresy because your denomination (which you admit was founded in the 17th century) disagrees with it? That's like saying that Judaism is a Christian heresy. You might want to check out what "heresy" means (or just what the "Reformed" in your sect means. Like free speech, these are it's a concept you apparently have trouble understanding.
NewbE--Agree with your reference to the Lebanese satirist's comments. There is a truly heretical idea on the march today --in the US universities as well as the Muslim world--that "I have a right not to be offended or discomforted that trumps your right to free speech." The fact that, in the US, it is centered in the universities, supposed citadels of free speech and learning-- is truly frightening.
Je suis Charlie (except that I don't have the guts that they had)
NewbE--Agree with your reference to the Lebanese satirist's comments. There is a truly heretical idea on the march today --in the US universities as well as the Muslim world--that "I have a right not to be offended or discomforted that trumps your right to free speech." The fact that, in the US, it is centered in the universities, supposed citadels of free speech and learning-- is truly frightening.
Je suis Charlie (except that I don't have the guts that they had)
Jan 9th, 2015, 12:09 PM
#145
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FrankS: here goes, for the fourth time:
Please define (that word kind of means explain)
what you (I mean the person typing as FrankS)
mean when you say
Free Speech.
In other words, looking for Free Speech definitions from you.
And no, I was NOT doing my best to insult you. If I did that, the yellow triangle would come out, quickly.
I am trying to speak within the confines of Fodor's rules against personal attacks, and to post things that move the discussion forward.
Hence my desire to figure out what the heck you mean when you say Free Speech.
Please define (that word kind of means explain)
what you (I mean the person typing as FrankS)
mean when you say
Free Speech.
In other words, looking for Free Speech definitions from you.
And no, I was NOT doing my best to insult you. If I did that, the yellow triangle would come out, quickly.
I am trying to speak within the confines of Fodor's rules against personal attacks, and to post things that move the discussion forward.
Hence my desire to figure out what the heck you mean when you say Free Speech.
Jan 9th, 2015, 12:15 PM
#146
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Free speech means free speech. Is that difficult for you to understand? It means you can say what you believe without persecution
Example
Free speech means France wouldnt convict an old man for converting to Islam and writing a book that states he doesnt think Nazis wanted to exterminate jews. Rather he believes they died of Typhus. Ya know, if we lost the war against the Japanese, I imagine they would have laid the same extermination charges against us if those incarcerated died of typhus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Garaudy
Example
Free speech means France wouldnt convict an old man for converting to Islam and writing a book that states he doesnt think Nazis wanted to exterminate jews. Rather he believes they died of Typhus. Ya know, if we lost the war against the Japanese, I imagine they would have laid the same extermination charges against us if those incarcerated died of typhus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Garaudy
Jan 9th, 2015, 12:59 PM
#147
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Well I have to go
There have been all kinds of people charged & convicted with various speech crimes in France over the years and few if anybody protested. They never protested because they were never interested in free speech. Like all the other depraved weak individuals in Europe, they only care what is important to them. Westerners with the 'I am Charlie' charade arent supporting free speech, they are in this fantasy because of...
1) They are scared to death of terrorists, and they think being in the mob will stop them from acting again
2) They actually only support ride, crude, pornographic speech
3) They benefit from the industry that puts out this garbage
4) They plain ole dont care for muslims despite their pleas for justice in French hate speech laws
Good night ya all
There have been all kinds of people charged & convicted with various speech crimes in France over the years and few if anybody protested. They never protested because they were never interested in free speech. Like all the other depraved weak individuals in Europe, they only care what is important to them. Westerners with the 'I am Charlie' charade arent supporting free speech, they are in this fantasy because of...
1) They are scared to death of terrorists, and they think being in the mob will stop them from acting again
2) They actually only support ride, crude, pornographic speech
3) They benefit from the industry that puts out this garbage
4) They plain ole dont care for muslims despite their pleas for justice in French hate speech laws
Good night ya all
Jan 9th, 2015, 01:07 PM
#148
France, in common with several other european countries, has laws against ANYONE denying that the holocaust occurred, and as you point out, Frankie, extended that to cover the Armenian genocide in January 2012.
Whatever you may think about it, the law applies equally no matter what the religion or lack thereof of the offender.
Clearly it is an infringement of free speech, but there are particular sensitivities about the Holocaust which make it understandable, IMO.
I do wonder why these infringements on free speech make you so hot under the collar.
Whatever you may think about it, the law applies equally no matter what the religion or lack thereof of the offender.
Clearly it is an infringement of free speech, but there are particular sensitivities about the Holocaust which make it understandable, IMO.
I do wonder why these infringements on free speech make you so hot under the collar.
Jan 9th, 2015, 01:46 PM
#149
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Now I understand FrankS. You do define Free Speech as the rest of us do. What I don't fully grasp is how you reconcile this bit of your tripe you've put on this thread:
<You arent supporting free speech . . . you merely support protection of trivial lewd speech>
with what you just posted:
<It means you can say what you believe without persecution>
So you say defending Lewd speech isn't defending free speech, but lewd speech is free speech.
NOW I understand you.
<You arent supporting free speech . . . you merely support protection of trivial lewd speech>
with what you just posted:
<It means you can say what you believe without persecution>
So you say defending Lewd speech isn't defending free speech, but lewd speech is free speech.
NOW I understand you.
Jan 9th, 2015, 02:18 PM
#151
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No freedom under the US Constitution is unfettered. There are both criminal and civil remedies depending on what was said or done. The main criminal restriction is attached to a physical threat to others.
The right wing estremists in the US have distorted the Constitution beyond recognition and this charge has been led by Alito, Thomas, Scalia, Roberts, and part time ally Anthony Kennedy.
Those who claim something is lewd are obviously applying their own personal prejudice.
Those who want to repress the rights of others are usually repressed themselves and afraid of the outside world, as if they are so weak they too will succumb to the temptations of Satan without the interventions of others.
The right wing estremists in the US have distorted the Constitution beyond recognition and this charge has been led by Alito, Thomas, Scalia, Roberts, and part time ally Anthony Kennedy.
Those who claim something is lewd are obviously applying their own personal prejudice.
Those who want to repress the rights of others are usually repressed themselves and afraid of the outside world, as if they are so weak they too will succumb to the temptations of Satan without the interventions of others.
Jan 9th, 2015, 02:24 PM
#152
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Let us see how long Je suis Charlie lasts. Probably as long as the next tragedy.
For Americans, 26 children and teachers were killed at Sandy Hook. Since then there have been 76 more school shootings.
What has happened with US gun laws? If anything they have become weaker. 20,000 Americans died due to gunshot wounds last year. It is OK for Americans to kill Americans, but when a Muslim does it, the level of sympathy and fear escalate.
Call me next year and tell me if what you have done about gun control and fighting for freedom of expression.
For Americans, 26 children and teachers were killed at Sandy Hook. Since then there have been 76 more school shootings.
What has happened with US gun laws? If anything they have become weaker. 20,000 Americans died due to gunshot wounds last year. It is OK for Americans to kill Americans, but when a Muslim does it, the level of sympathy and fear escalate.
Call me next year and tell me if what you have done about gun control and fighting for freedom of expression.
