annhig

How do Europeans handle the saying of Grace at the American table?>>

With grace, hopefully.

LSky

"Saying grace may make your guests uncomfortable.
It is rude to make your guests uncomfortable."

What is the big deal? All of this protest just strikes me that some people are a little too controlling.

While I prefer a moment of silence, if someone wants a spoken prayer that's fine. It takes 10-15 seconds. In that time one can take a nice calming breath and celebrate that others want to eat with you.

I have a group of friends who feel uncomfortable if we don't stop to have a little prayer before eating. We are from different religions. We hold hands and have a silence.

So, if for some reason you have part of this group over, are you going to make them feel uncomfortable?

justineparis

Thursdaysd, when in Rome .... When you are a guest you have equal responsiblity to be a gracious guest.. you don't say "ew" if served a dish you don't like either...
When invited into someones home,, or similar,when you visit someones country , then you should accept there may be some different customs and do your best as a guest to respect them..
No one is asking the guest to do anything more then sit quietly for 30 seconds,, once again I ask, is that really so hard to do? We can all stand on our principles, but a smart person trys to weigh when its worth it.
Most of us agree grace is not too invasive, you are not expected to say Grace, you are not expected to join their religion, you simply are waiting an extra few seconds while your host may say a few words..
If asked to say Grace then I think its absolutely fine to say "no thanks",, just like if you are passed a regional /national dish you don't want to try ( jellied eels anyone, lol )

thursdaysd

"All of this protest just strikes me that some people are a little too controlling."

So, it's "controlling" to want to eat without a religious ritual beforehand, but not controlling to insist on having said ritual?

thursdaysd

justineparis - it appears you haven't read my earlier comments, in which I said quite clearly that I would indeed sit quietly if my hosts said grace, and even offered a non-religious version of grace for use if needed. I am merely pointing out that while it is incumbent on both sides to be polite, the onus is on the host as much if not more than the guest.

marciakaz

"So, it's "controlling" to want to eat without a religious ritual beforehand, but not controlling to insist on having said ritual?"

I am not a Christian, but I live in a part of the country where this "ritual" is very common. I often suspect people do it when they have guests specifically to display their faithfulness. That said, if I'm a host, I serve what I serve, play the music I wish to play, and observe the rituals that I believe are important. If you are my invited guest, and don't care for any of the above, then I suppose you wouldn't accept my next invitation.

justineparis

Actually the onus is on the guest to accept that when they are a guest in someones home, or country , they are the ones who must compromise...A host should not knowingly make a guest uncomfortable, but I think we can agree that a short few words wouldn't make most people uncomfortable.. and if you are dining in someones home you are usually a friend, not a stranger off the street , so would usually have a clue if our friends are observing Christains, or if our guests are very anti Christain ritual.

marciakaz, in many parts of your country and certainly in my country, most people have no desire to "display their faithfullness" unless they actually have a faith. Perhaps in the "Bible Belt" areas this may be true, where its socially more acceptable to disply Christian faith, but in many areas it seems polictically incorrect to be Christain.

Its almost like some people who claim to be agnostic or atheist would have no problem sitting through a wiccan ritual, or Buddish pray chant, but find the idea of sitting through a Christain prayer alot harder to stomach..

annhig

Its almost like some people who claim to be agnostic or atheist would have no problem sitting through a wiccan ritual, or Buddish pray chant, but find the idea of sitting through a Christain prayer alot harder to stomach..>>

justineparis, I can assure you that I have exactly the same feelings about all religions, and that I am completely non-discriminatory in that respect.

Ackislander

My college roommate's father was a rabbi. When I shared a Shabbos meal with them I participated as fully as I could in my ignorance and kept silent otherwise. I got invited back, so it must have been okay. He certainly blessed food before meals or asked that it be blessed by g-d.

LSky

I'm not controlling anyone, they can eat if they want while I take a moment. I imagine most people feel this way.

I was taught to wait until everyone is seated before I begin eating. It's only polite not to dig in before the host is seated. Otherwise one looks as though they are only there for the meal and not the company. Anyone at my table is free to do whatever they want within reason.

If it means so much to you not to participate. The prayer is over in moments. It's not a big deal.

flanneruk

"defenestrated in the 50s except for the very small colleges "

Bilbo's Law: the smaller the college, the longer the Grace?

flanneruk

"Where I do draw the line is when we are performing in the local cathedral, which for these purposes is no different to a theatre or concert hall, and prayers are said before we start. you might say that we are performing religious works, so it's appropriate."

This must be some Cornish weirdism.

In real England, Anglican churches are regularly used for concerts (and discussion groups, and talks, and God knows what else). They've usually got dynamite acoustics, need the revenue and have been community centres for all kinds of non-religious purposes, under both sets of owners, for most of their thousand years.

I don't think I've ever heard a prayer said in one of them except as part of a properly advertised service (which a concert performance of a Mozart Mass absolutely doesn't count as).

Most of our PCC would regard unnecessary praying in church as downright heretical. Almost as bad as praying in the dining room at home.

Or as one of our local wannabne squires put it "the family that prays together would be a lot happier somewhere else"

MissPrism

....I don't think I've ever heard a prayer said in one of them except as part of a properly advertised service (which a concert performance of a Mozart Mass absolutely doesn't count as)....

Unless, it has changed recently, all concerts in Chester Cathedral are preceded by a prayer. I must say that I disapprove. I've been to several concerts in churches and it's the only place I have met it.

Bitter

"Its almost like some people who claim to be agnostic or atheist would have no problem sitting through a wiccan ritual, or Buddish pray chant, but find the idea of sitting through a Christain prayer alot harder to stomach.."

For some folks, expressing disdain for Christians or Christianity is how you demonstrate how cool and sophisticated you are.

Funny how it doesn't translate to certain other religions.

thursdaysd

"but I think we can agree that a short few words wouldn't make most people uncomfortable"

Have you bothered to read the other posts on this thread? It is quite clear that it DOES make people uncomfortable.

november_moon

As a child, I was taught that the polite thing was to go with the flow when in other people's homes. At the dinner table, watch what others are doing and follow suit. Don't start eating until others have started. If the hosts hold hands and say grace, then hold hands and be silent and respectful. Yes, holding hands might be a little strange right before eating, but trust in your immune system and go for it. It won't be the first time that day you have ingested some sort of germ. I've never seen this as a big deal - and I am a very non-religious person.

LSky

Clearly, it makes you uncomfortable. Perhaps you're best course of action is, when you are invited to dinner at someone's home, ask them about grace.

That way both of you will know and all will be spared an uncomfortable evening.

If a small prayer makes a person uncomfortable, I'm sure everyone will soon hear the litany of all else that makes them uncomfortable.

chartley

In American homes, are antiseptic wipes used before or after prayers are said and hands held?

annhig

For some folks, expressing disdain for Christians or Christianity is how you demonstrate how cool and sophisticated you are.

Funny how it doesn't translate to certain other religions.>>

read what I said upthread, bitter. who is saying this, except some of those, who like you, favour the Christian religion? none of us atheists or agnostics, certainly. I wonder why it is so hard for you to respect my lack of belief whilst you expect me to respect your faith?

annhig

I should add, flanner, that it looks as if Cornish "weirdness" has spread to Chester.

isn't it funny [if that's the right word] that in a country that has a separation of state and religion enshrined in its constitution, religion is still such a large part of everyday life for so many, whereas in the UK, which has a state religion, it's a very peripheral part?

discuss.