How do Europeans handle the saying of Grace at the American table?
Feb 18th, 2013, 06:27 AM
#21
nytraveler - I think you're leading a sheltered life up there in NY.
As a non-believer I would be unhappy if asked to say grace, but I would simply adapt the one used when I was at school: "For what we are about to receive may we be truly thankful", rather than "may the Lord make us truly thankful". Pretty simple. However, I might then initiate a - hopefully polite - discussion about the custom.
As a non-believer I would be unhappy if asked to say grace, but I would simply adapt the one used when I was at school: "For what we are about to receive may we be truly thankful", rather than "may the Lord make us truly thankful". Pretty simple. However, I might then initiate a - hopefully polite - discussion about the custom.
Feb 18th, 2013, 06:43 AM
#22
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I don't like holding hands with others, period, so that would bother me. And I don't know why a guest would be asked to say the grace.
But the idea that folks would be freaked out by someone saying grace is an overreaction.
But the idea that folks would be freaked out by someone saying grace is an overreaction.
Feb 18th, 2013, 06:56 AM
#23
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Whenever I've been at meals in the U.S. (I'm English) where grace has been said and hands held (or not, depending on the hosts), I've always just bowed my head and listened to the prayer, whilst doing a dummy run in my head of which dishes to attack and in what order, once it's over.
I've always thought is was a question of respect, much like the national anthem being played before sporting events. It might not be my anthem, but I'm certainly going to stand up and stay silent whilst it plays.
I was once berated at an Eagle Scout ceremony for not putting my hand on my heart whilst allegiance was pledged to the flag, and I just responded by saying that although I was happy to be visiting, I wouldn't be 'holding' my heart as it wouldn't seem right.
The same goes for Sikh weddings I've been to. It might not be my faith, but I'll cover my head and participate in the elements I can (and have been invited to) participate in.
I've always thought is was a question of respect, much like the national anthem being played before sporting events. It might not be my anthem, but I'm certainly going to stand up and stay silent whilst it plays.
I was once berated at an Eagle Scout ceremony for not putting my hand on my heart whilst allegiance was pledged to the flag, and I just responded by saying that although I was happy to be visiting, I wouldn't be 'holding' my heart as it wouldn't seem right.
The same goes for Sikh weddings I've been to. It might not be my faith, but I'll cover my head and participate in the elements I can (and have been invited to) participate in.
Feb 18th, 2013, 11:37 AM
#25
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funny forum! an american posts a question for europeans and mostly americans are answering it (and a few britons).
well, i am from the european continent and try to find an answer.
firstly, i did not understand the question until one poster described the ceremony.
secondly, i experienced the ritual in about 20% of the american households where i have been invited for dinner but in less than 1% of european households.
thirdly, we europeans are used to travel to other countries with exotic habits. if we travel, say, to kenya and the natives serve us a bowl of warm blood, we think "do no offend your host!" and we drink it and vomit later as discretely as possible. and we understand that there is a scientific ethnological explanation for this behaviour.
so, when we first experienced the ritual that you call "saying grace" in the U.S. we observed our hosts and tried to imitate their movements as accurately as possible. after we had diagnosed that it had been part of a religious ceremony we cleaned ourselves after dinner by drawing a reversed pentagram.
naturally, we analyzed the american habit of "saying grace" scientifically. here in europe, no one would thank god for providing food. since we have agricultural overproduction in the european union, we would thank god for giving us new sophisticated ways of destroying food. here in europe, people thank god only for letting their local football team win (the priest of maranello for letting ferrari win a formula one race).
the americans are "saying grace" and celebrating thanksgiving because the pilgrim fathers almost starved and were so grateful that their first harvest turned out successful so that a tradition originated.
strangely, flanneruk wrote that the britons have the same ceremony. however, given the desastrous state of british economy, it is understandable that britons thank god for providing them with spam, weetabix and marmite. most probably this habit will vanish, when uk joins the euro zone, which will happen, as i have been told by the british prime minister, soon.
(sorry for not using caps, but i have a broken hand)
well, i am from the european continent and try to find an answer.
firstly, i did not understand the question until one poster described the ceremony.
secondly, i experienced the ritual in about 20% of the american households where i have been invited for dinner but in less than 1% of european households.
thirdly, we europeans are used to travel to other countries with exotic habits. if we travel, say, to kenya and the natives serve us a bowl of warm blood, we think "do no offend your host!" and we drink it and vomit later as discretely as possible. and we understand that there is a scientific ethnological explanation for this behaviour.
so, when we first experienced the ritual that you call "saying grace" in the U.S. we observed our hosts and tried to imitate their movements as accurately as possible. after we had diagnosed that it had been part of a religious ceremony we cleaned ourselves after dinner by drawing a reversed pentagram.
naturally, we analyzed the american habit of "saying grace" scientifically. here in europe, no one would thank god for providing food. since we have agricultural overproduction in the european union, we would thank god for giving us new sophisticated ways of destroying food. here in europe, people thank god only for letting their local football team win (the priest of maranello for letting ferrari win a formula one race).
the americans are "saying grace" and celebrating thanksgiving because the pilgrim fathers almost starved and were so grateful that their first harvest turned out successful so that a tradition originated.
strangely, flanneruk wrote that the britons have the same ceremony. however, given the desastrous state of british economy, it is understandable that britons thank god for providing them with spam, weetabix and marmite. most probably this habit will vanish, when uk joins the euro zone, which will happen, as i have been told by the british prime minister, soon.
(sorry for not using caps, but i have a broken hand)
Feb 18th, 2013, 12:22 PM
#28
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Oh, bilboburger, a Dark Blue or a Light Blue?
We say grace at my house, whether alone or with family or with friends.
Since ladies and gentlemen do not discuss religion, I have no knowledge of my guests' beliefs. When it is a general gathering, I use a non denominational grace and trust that those who are not believers will have the good manners simply to remain silent. So far, I have not been disappointed.
We say grace at my house, whether alone or with family or with friends.
Since ladies and gentlemen do not discuss religion, I have no knowledge of my guests' beliefs. When it is a general gathering, I use a non denominational grace and trust that those who are not believers will have the good manners simply to remain silent. So far, I have not been disappointed.
Feb 18th, 2013, 03:22 PM
#29
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We do not say grace, and frankly, the whole hand-holding thing gives me the creeps. Yes, I would simply stay silent. I would not however bow my head - what on earth for? And if asked to SAY grace, I'd have to politely decline, as I wouldn't have a clue what to say.
And I loved traveller1959's entire post - thank you!
And I loved traveller1959's entire post - thank you!
Feb 18th, 2013, 04:47 PM
#32
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We do say grace before dinner, a brief event where we give thanks and remember those we know are dealing with things such as illness, family issues, finances. If someone is a guest in our home and we know how they feel about it, we say grace. If unsure, we don't. DH and I used to hold hands, but not when we had guests. And these prayers were very short. 15-20 seconds.
This may be more prevalent in certain regions, but everywhere we've lived we have encountered it, even when we were not doing it ourselves.
This may be more prevalent in certain regions, but everywhere we've lived we have encountered it, even when we were not doing it ourselves.
Feb 18th, 2013, 05:02 PM
#33
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Sorry - it's true that Thanksgiving is a remembrance of the survival of the Pilgrims through the first winter (when so many died) and the survival and reaping of the first harvest (with the help of the local native americans).
That is a national holiday.
Saying grace at meals has nothing to do with that tradition.
It's simply a habit of some religious groups - and I suspect to a very different extent among different religions and in different parts of the country.
I have never seen it - except at specific meals related to religious events (Passover seders) but I suspect that it's more common among fundamentalist protestant groups. (I grew up in an area that was primarily jewish and catholic and the few protestants were episcopalians and lutherans - and never saw it in those homes either. But there may also be regional differences.
That is a national holiday.
Saying grace at meals has nothing to do with that tradition.
It's simply a habit of some religious groups - and I suspect to a very different extent among different religions and in different parts of the country.
I have never seen it - except at specific meals related to religious events (Passover seders) but I suspect that it's more common among fundamentalist protestant groups. (I grew up in an area that was primarily jewish and catholic and the few protestants were episcopalians and lutherans - and never saw it in those homes either. But there may also be regional differences.
Feb 18th, 2013, 05:11 PM
#36
Most families that I know don't hold hands while saying grace unless it's a special dinner (Easter, Christmas, etc.). I have a couple of friends that say grace at restaurants, but they just bow their heads and say a silent prayer (just a few seconds). We go out to eat regularly and they don't expect the rest of us to participate at all.
Feb 19th, 2013, 11:59 AM
#37
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Currently, Bavarians will be saying Grace (in a slightly different manner):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ive-mbm-report
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ive-mbm-report
Feb 19th, 2013, 12:22 PM
#38
We never say grace except when my uncle, a retired Episcopalian priest is present. He just mutters a quick thanks.
As a boy I was friends with a reasonably devout Catholic family -- the mother died rather than abort her seventh child -- their grace was short and simple:
"In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
Whoever eats the fastest gets the most!"
As a boy I was friends with a reasonably devout Catholic family -- the mother died rather than abort her seventh child -- their grace was short and simple:
"In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
Whoever eats the fastest gets the most!"
Feb 19th, 2013, 12:39 PM
#39
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I am a Christian but mostly our praying is in church or at our own table. Yes, I've seen families hold hands in restaurants and bow their heads for a prayer. And we choose not to. Guess a silent prayer is OK. Act of praying often is prompted by having children.
By the way, let's define the term "saying grace"...what it means is a prayer of thanks for food, life, loved ones, the moment. I would hope except for the non-believers many of us might just breathe "thank you God, for life" once in awhile.
amer_can...yes, this is a topic which should be in Forum.
StCirq...yeah, that holding hands is something else.
MonicaRichards...I think for special family gatherings many of us "say grace."
By the way, let's define the term "saying grace"...what it means is a prayer of thanks for food, life, loved ones, the moment. I would hope except for the non-believers many of us might just breathe "thank you God, for life" once in awhile.
amer_can...yes, this is a topic which should be in Forum.
StCirq...yeah, that holding hands is something else.
MonicaRichards...I think for special family gatherings many of us "say grace."
