justineparis

A lot of generalizations going on here , 1959 , I seriously doubt most Europeons would drink the blood and vomit discreetly later, can assure my relatives wouldn't, lol

And just to clarify.. we (Canadians) have Thanksgiving earlier then Americans cause we are sensible enough to space our big pig out meals.. a nice big turkey dinner in October , and then you are ready for another one by Dec 25th, lol You guys have your holidays too close together!!!

bilboburgler

Ackislander Dark.

annhig

as an atheist lawyer I've had to endure many a grace preceding a meal, and have lived to tell the tale. I'm also in a choir which sings mainly religious works in a cathedral and I cope with that too, but I do find the prayer which precedes the performance more difficult to swallow. [given it is in fact a concert which just happens to be taking place in a consecrated building simply because it's the best venue in the area].

I've never been invited to a meal in someone's house where grace is said, but should any of you be kind enough to invite me, i dare say I'd cope with that too.

you probably wouldn't even notice.

ElendilPickle

>>IMHO prayer is a private thing and belongs in church - not at a dinner party - and should not be imposed on others - who may have different beliefs - in public.<<

If I host a dinner in my home, it's not a public gathering.

We always pray before a meal - in public as well as at home. If we have guests who don't share our faith, we give them a heads up before we pray so they aren't surprised, and they can choose whether or not to participate. In public, if we're with a mixed group of folks, like at a GTG, I pray silently; if I'm with people from my church, one of us will pray aloud for the whole group.

Lee Ann

ziggypop

annhig, if you are in Minnesota, I'll cook. My Brit born son in law would love to have someone he can understand.
My family always says grace, those who want to pray, pray, those that don't, don't. I really think that silence and respectfullness is all that is required to be polite.

paulstj

Catholic Christians say grace before a meal and you can participate or sit quietly but do not eat before it is over or you are considered rude.

thursdaysd

Let's turn this around. So, it's rude for a non-believer not to sit quietly through grace. Looks like those posting here are in general fine with that. How about the believers not saying grace when they know they are around non-believers? Outside of their own homes I certainly think it's rude (at least) to do so, and I could make a case for it to be rude IN their homes - it's rude to knowingly make your guests uncomfortable.

halfapair

I guess I don't understand why listening to someone pray for about 30-60 seconds is such an "ordeal," or something which must be "endured?"

Why does it make you uncomfortable?

thursdaysd

How would you feel if your host decided to conduct a Wiccan ritual before the meal?

Fra_Diavolo

Well, I think good manners trumps religious convictions in this discrete example.

halfapair

If I was at someone's home and they said a 60 second Wiccan prayer I would bow my head and pray...to God. I would not call it an 'ordeal' or tell people what I had to 'endure.'

While I might find it strange, I just wouldn't think of it in those terms.

LSky

"How would you feel if your host decided to conduct a Wiccan ritual before the meal?"

How long is that going to take?

I say grace before I eat, it's a silent moment of acknowledgement. When people are in my home they can participate or not.

Whenever I eat at someone else's home, I wait for them to start so it's their dinner. If they are going to pray I'm glad I waited.

I rarely drink alcohol. What's the difference between a prayer and a toast? They are both gestures meant for love.

If someone makes a toast, I hold up whatever is in my glass.
If someone offers a prayer hold up whatever is in your heart.

justineparis

Some people sure seem to exagerate how awful it would be to simply delay eating for 30-60 seconds,, eating disorders ( gluttony??)

I have no problem delaying for a period of time while my host does whatever the heck they want, if by delaying my self gratifcation for a minute is going to be polite.

Rubicund

"How would you feel if your host decided to conduct a Wiccan ritual before the meal?"

Depends whether I have to take my clothes off.

PatrickLondon

30-60 seconds for grace? Do they take a collection as well?

I've never known it to take more than 10 seconds in my CofE family, or even when they did formal Latin grace at my Cambridge college. Anything more than that would be considered excessive, and there might be mutterings about whited sepulchres; but when you're a guest in someone's house you respect their ways.

>>I was invited to actually say the grace, and had to politely decline as I am Agnostic. <<

Esprit d'escalier, perhaps, but there's nothing dishonest about a gentle modification of the conventional to "For what we are about to receive, let us be truly thankful." Accepts the honour they think they are doing you, preserves the communality, makes no pretence at false belief.

annhig

annhig, if you are in Minnesota, I'll cook. My Brit born son in law would love to have someone he can understand.>>

ziggypop, you're on.

BTW, what do you like to eat in Minnesota?

flanneruk

"Catholic Christians say grace before a meal and you can participate or sit quietly but do not eat before it is over or you are considered rude."

Some do.

It's now close to 50 years since I last encountered the practice in a Catholic home. Even when joined by seminarian members of the flannerclan, we never revived the practice.

Patrick, BTW, clearly went to an exceptionally laconic college. At my alma mater, the fastest-speaking scholar of the day managed the Grace in a record 23 secs, but got sconced for being unintelligible.

bilboburgler

"Sconcing", I thought that was defenestrated in the 50s except for the very small colleges though mine seems to have brought back the "loving cup" in 2002. Since none of the medical doctors would touch the thing I've avoided it

thursdaysd

"Why does it make you uncomfortable?"

Why is not important. The fact is that it does make people uncomfortable - just reread this thread.

Saying grace may make your guests uncomfortable.
It is rude to make your guests uncomfortable.
Therefore, you should not say grace unless all your guests are known to be members of your particular religion (and maybe not even then, depending on the religion.)

And if you don't think there's any difference berween making a toast and saying grace it should certainly not be a problem to omit grace. What a silly analogy.

annhig

i would be surprised, if not discomforted, if I was invited to someone's house for a meal in the UK and discovered that they said grace before we ate.

IME it simply doesn't happen here. [or indeed in any of the houses I've been invited to eat in all over Europe] [does anyone know if they do it at Buck House?]

I recognise that in the US it in not uncommon and applying the "when in Rome" philosophy, i hope that I would behave appropriately.

Where I do draw the line is when we are performing in the local cathedral, which for these purposes is no different to a theatre or concert hall, and prayers are said before we start. you might say that we are performing religious works, so it's appropriate. However, next month we are going to be performing a secular requiem which is avowedly NOT Christian or religious, except perhaps in the widest sense.

I wait with interest to see if we have a prayer imposed on us then.

BTW, as [as I suppose] grace is said to thank God for food, drink etc. why is saying it limited to meals? why not when you have a glass of wine, or water? or when you eat an apple. Or for that matter when you get up in the morning and see that the sun has risen?