need to know proper attire (woman's) for St Peter's and other Italian churches for June-July - obviously will cover shoulders and knees (long skirt or capris)- but is it mandatory for head to be covered? - what about shoes -are sandals (open toe shoes) allowed?? -- same question as to proper attire for museums in Italy and France

In Siena I wore a short skirt, sandals and sleevless top. As I entered the church (il Duomo) they gave me a paper poncho to cover my shoulders with but never commented on knees or toes showing. And in museums no one commented on the clothes I was wearing. I went into Uffizi, Accademia similarly dressed. Maybe if you went to mass they might expect you to cover your head but I don't know really.

I did not require a head cover when I went to the Vatican nor any other church while in Rome. I did think ahead and brought a Shawl to cover my shoulders and arms and I believe I also was wearing sandals (it was July).

Museums are not an issue as long as you're wearing something.

For St. Peter's (enforced rules) and other churches in Italy (politeness/respect for local feelings) you should have a skirt/pants that reach the knee (don;t have to be below) and cover your upper arms, midriff and bosom. You don;t need a head covering. No one cares about your toes - as long as you're not barefoot.

Do you think toes are erogenous zones? Well, maybe for some people, but not most. I thought a lot of those monks wore sandals, I know I've seen some wearing sandals in summer school as I went to a Catholic university with a bunch of brothers and nuns one summer in Paris. I'm sure they wouldn't wear something considered indecent by their church.

AS for France, there isn't any dress code for museums. You should wear what you think proper for going out in public, like you would when you visit other museums in the world.

I'll never forget when we were in Rome in 2001. We hadn't planned on going to St. Peter's that day, so my wife and my buddy wore shorts. We walked over to see the outside of St. Peter's (we were going on a tour the next day).

There were no crowds, so we tried to go in. Of course, my wife and friend were not let in. About 5 minutes later these two (sorry ladies, but this how my wife describes them...and so do I) "babes in mini-skirts" came to the entrance. The guards gave them a wink, and in they went.

All is not fair in church and mini-skirts.

I was surprised at how lax the "dress code" seemed to be at St. Peter's and other churches. Lots of sandals...Like the above post, I noticed that mini skirts on young girls seemed to be fine, but short shorts on middle aged ladies were not. Hmmmm....On an unrelated note, while in St. Marks I observed a group of security guards openly pointing at and mocking a small person. I was furious that they would turn people away for dress, and behave so badly, in a church of all places. I glared at them but my Italian was too marginal to say anything appropriate, nor could I figure out how to mime a complaint at the front entrance.

Natalie -- If your Italian is so poor, how could you tell the St. Peter's guards were mocking a small person for being a small person? PUH-leese!

O.k. this really doesn't warrant a response, but I'll bite....because one went and called his 2 friends over then went through the crowd to point her out, as they didn't see her...then stood pointing at her while laughing and gesturing. They weren't just smirking...they made a visible scene.

It wasn't the guards at St. Peters, it was at St.Marks (Venice) per Natalie.

Guess that just shows there are idiots everywhere.

They have a similar dress code to St Peter's at the Sistine Chapel, which, though part of the Vatican Museums, is still the official chapel for the Vatican (and the Conclave took place there). While it would be ok to visit other parts of the museums sleeveless etc, you need to cover up when you get to the chapel (and it is enforced).

So sandals are ok in St. Peters and the Vatican museums and other churches?

Sandals are fine.

In March I saw (or rather heard) the guards turn someone away from St. Mark's--they didn't do it discreetly at all, but with shouts that sounded abusive. I only caught a glimpse of two shorts-clad people scurrying away.

I've never covered my head when visitng any European church (but I've also never visited during a Mass).

Covering heads by women when attending Mass went with Vatican II 40 years ago, but the custom still survives among some worshippers in Latin America, and Asia (Japan, Korea, China, Philippines), and among some elderly in Europe. It is still customary for Catholic women (and others too), when formally introduced to the Pope, to cover their head with black lace or mantilla.