djkbooks

For sure, many parents simply do not supervise or discipline their kids. IMHO some behave badly in public because it's allowed all the time at home.

"We left, and we haven't been back since," Ms. Cavitt said. "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do - really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

From the above mentioned article. Interesting...

chepar

LoveItaly-

Wow - your experience sounds exactly like mine. Going out to restaurants is pretty much not a consideration anymore - my sister and I get the dirty looks from other patrons because we are of the age where either of us could be their parents - and we are usually the ones trying to rein them in. Meanwhile, their mother is sitting there, eating and chatting and completely ignoring them.

In fact, my parents declined to go over to my sister's this past Halloween - usually everyone goes to have dinner, see the kids in their costumes and take them trick or treating - my mother's exact words "I can't take them anymore".

I feel sorry for these boys, too. They're not bad kids - they just have no discipline and run wild because they've always been allowed to do so.

LoveItaly

Hi Chepar, that is the sad thing isn't it, not bad kids! But kids will be classified as "bad" in public places, school etc. if their parents do not discipline them and take the time to teach them what is acceptable behavior. Bottom line is that it is not easy being a parent, but if you are a parent there are certain obligations that you owe your child/children so that they know how to fit in with society and consequently have a good life. Guess the bottom really is that is the children that will suffer the most.

Raisinette

If I ever open a cafe, I'm going to call it Indoor Voices.

The attitudes of those defiant parents was appalling but not surprising. American kids aren't the only ones running wild, however. British children are just as bad, often worse. When I was in Orlando (a popular British vacation spot), I was shocked by the horrible behavior of so many British children in restaurants and malls. We actually had to leave one restaurant because the kids were running around screaming so much and the parents didn't bat an eye; the other British families there didn't seem to care either or find the behavior out of the ordinary.
Other European children seem much better behaved.

fairfax

There are a number of shows on TV in the UK about bad children... Even at the age of 2 or 3, the kids rule the roost, and the parents are powerless against them. There's an expression here - start as you mean to finish...

mah1980

That's interesting that the bad children thing is a problem in the UK too. I thought that was more of an American spoiled kid thing.

Something I found funny is catching a glimpse of that show Super Nanny on ABC when they bring in a British nanny who helps inept parents say no to their 2 year olds. If anyone wants to know what the parents that were quoted in the NYT article look like in child rearing action (or rather, inaction) look no further than Super Nanny. When a parent has to bring in a consultant to help with their kids you know there are some major problems!!!

ahhnold

Agreed Cassandra. But, listen to me and you will learn more about the way things SHOULD be done politically.;-)
;-) ;-)

Cassandra

I find appalling and dismaying the whole attitude in which parents defend badly misbehaving children to other adults, managers, or authorities in general. It's annoying and a botheration in restaurants; but it's part (only part) of the destruction of our educational system.

(There, ahhnold, another area where I bet we agree. But if you hold your breath until we agree on how gummint and politix ought to be run, you'd better have your affairs in order.)

klr6773

Thanks to Bennnie for saying what I was thinking!
While my 2 1/2 yr old daughter has a "moment" from time to time, thank goodness, they are very few and far between. While I do not reward her every time we go out, I do offer her a "suprise" (usually inexpensive,like stickers)for those days that we are doing alot of running around.Also,it feels pretty good at the end of a long flight (she knows PDX and EWR like Target now!)when the people around us compliment her on her behavior,especially the ones that have a look of terror on their faces as they see us approach!

BjorkChop

After my daughter learned her first words of "mama" and "dada", she learned "tank you", "sur" and "maam". I did plenty of giving my own jewish mama evil eye when she even thought about jumping up and down in a booth. When she was about seven years old, I was getting my hair done and one of the hairdressers was giving out balloons to a group of children. When my daughter was given one, she replied what she was taught and then the hairdresser turned to me and said "that's the first child today to thank me". She said this was an astonished look on her face, sad huh? Now at 13, she notices rude manners from kids her own age.

aliska

I need to say that there are people out there who just react badly to children, period. When my first child was 7 months old, we went to a very nice white tablecloth restaurant for lunch on a Saturday in the northern Chicago suburbs. It had been very well recommended and was convenient to our plans for the afternoon. We asked for a high chair and were seated. My daughter did not yell, scream, or do make any kind of unusual baby type noises. However, she did wear a bib and managed to get food over her face (no throwing, just playing with food). I was in heaven because if you stay home all week with a baby, you can begin to lose your mind. The waitress came to clear our plates, and I asked to see a dessert menu. She didn't miss a beat and replied that management would like us to pay our check and leave as soon as possible. There had been some complaints from little old ladies that the sight of a baby in the restaurant upset them and this was their day to day clientele. I was shocked. We were so dumb struck, we complied. Later that afternoon, I called the restaurant. There was a chef-owner combination of husband and wife, and I wanted them to know how their staff treated people. I was shocked again to find out they backed up their staff. In fact, they did not hesitate to say we should not have been seated in the first place. This was a Saturday lunch, mind you, not Saturday dinner. There is a P.S. to this story that is pretty funny. About 3 weeks to the day we visited, their restaurant burnt to the ground in a very mysterious fire. That isn't all - the owners ended up having triplets a year or so after our visit. I wonder how they feel now about taking well behaved (but slightly messy) babies to a restaurant for lunch on a Saturday afternoon?

ChiDad

Funny that their restaurant burned down? That's pretty twisted, regardless of how you feel you were mistreated.

Just sayin'

GoTravel

When I was a kid, if we misbehaved in public, we got an ass whipping and it was as simple as that.

I can remember before I made my first communion (meaning I was under the age of six) that if I didn't keep quiet during mass, I was done for when I got home.

We didn't go out to eat with my parents until we were old enough to behave.

Children are not too young to know the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

jorr

JJ5, I had a similar situation on a flight. a child sitting behind me was kicking the back rest of my seat. His mother was sitting next to him. She was so oblivious to the problem I had to ask her to make her kid quit kicking my seat.

ahhnold, I disagree with your politics as well because I'm smart. ;-)

E

In my experience, parents always underestimate their babies' messiness, loudness and disruptiveness. They're used to it, after all.

Therefore, I always take tales of "my baby behaved perfectly, but still others complained" with a grain of salt.

Sartoris

I'm fascinated by this article.. i think I will plan a trip to Chicago just for the privilege of supporting this business. As a child-free gay man, I often feel put upon when traveling-- even in gay nbeighborhhods by rude parents wo simply don't understand or care that there are people out there who don't want to be bothered by their children. Even my friends who have children say that they have a hard time going out for a special occassion when they've gotten a sitter because nobody else has the same consideration. So you end up paying four star prices for Chuck E. Cheese ambiance. Bravo for A Taste of Heaven!

LoveItaly

What hits me as strange regarding the restaurant that refused to serve Aliska desert because other customers complained about her child is this...the restaurant provided a highchair per her post, so the restaurant doesn't sound as though they were against having children in their restaurant.

SerBrunetto

Three Cheers for Taste of Heaven in Chicago...and to think you can go there and not have to see Ms. Cavitt or her screaming children. We should all send our support to this establishment and let it know that it can, indeed thrive without the generosity of Ms. Cavitt.

stevefrat

I just had to suppress a shudder at the memory of one of my father's "looks." One look was a warning. A second was a promise of things to come.

here_today_gone2Maui

My favorite quote from the story is "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

I was one of three children and God help us if any of us raised our voice in public. My parents must have been überparents to be able to teach not just one, but THREE children the difference between playground behavior and how to act in a restaurant.