ahhnold

Simply put, parents today are more concerened with being best friends with their children that parents. That is why there is no discipline, especially at a young toddler age. For some reason parents are convinced discipline correlates with abuse. A bunch of bull, IMHO.

jorr

There is NO WAY my parents would have allowed my brother and me to whine and run around restaurants when we were kids like some parents do today.

Some of these Parents need a spanking... in front of entire restaurant!

CAPH52

One other aspect of this that I don't think has been mentioned...if my kids had ever pulled some of the stunts that have been mentioned here, I would have been mortified. I would have felt that the whole world was seeing what an irresponsible parent I was. Have these people no shame?

Once again, I think it all goes back to common courtesy. A concept that, unfortunately, many people just don't seem to understand these days. Not only is it discourteous in terms of the people around you. But to the child as well. When you take a child somewhere they're not equipped to deal with, you're either inflicting bad behavior on others or expecting the child to do something of which they're not capable. And all so that you can "enjoy" someplace they have no business being. Again, rude and self-centered.

LoveItaly

hey JJ5.."THE EYE". Oh yes, I certainly was familar with that, LOL. Stopped me in my tracks too. Take care.

fairfax

One of my siblings who has four children tells me that she can't provide quantity time with her children, so she wants quality time - with no yelling or screaming at them, even when they are mis-behaving.

Other friends spent mega $$$ on a trip to the Galapagos and one couple brought their children, and then abdicated all responsibility for them, expecting the others in the group to help with the care of the kids.

I don't and can't have children, but I firmly believe that if you have children, they're your responsibility. If your children are bothering me,or my things, then i have the right to speak to them.

And I know "the look"... in my family, we call it the Charleston look, from one of my great-grandmothers who was from there.

Cassandra

I'm the first person to defend parents who need/want to travel with children, and I have little patience with those who go on the attack against kids in planes, etc.

HOWEVER, I'm fully in agreement with establishments that post expectations regarding children's behavior. We have had a couple of generations, now, who think childhood is a sanctified state and we should all admire the "naturalness" of kids out of control. Yes, take them to restaurants so they'll know how civilized, grown-ups behave, but make a point of telling them they are supposed to be trying to get civilized and show them how.

If you let them think they're entitled to behave horrifically just because they're children, I guaranteed they'll grow up to think they're entitled to behave badly just because they're "adults."

(Huh! A first: I agree with ahhnold!)

JJ5

I don't know what the Charleston "eye" or look entails but I can guess. Our Sicilian eye was demonstrated very well by Al Pacino as he closed the door on his children-visiting ex (she was mis-cast- better as Annie Hall)in Godfather II.

I actually in my early girlhood was given a heavy punishment for giving "the eye" myself to a nun by a nun.

And if Grandma or Dad was giving you the "eye"- well you had better start shaking in your boots. Their displeasure alone made you ponder. Quickly!

Liz2005

I'm a 27 yr old newlywed hoping to someday soon be a mom. Saying that several of my girlfriends have young children already. When we meet for dinners now it is "accepted" that the kids come along. I love them all, but the one boy is the biggest brat you'll ever meet! We only ever go to pizza places now, but even then with his screaming and carrying on I am embarrassed to be with them and wish the mom would remove him or discipline him. He's not quite 2, which I know is really young to undersand discipline but you have to do something! His parents do NOTHING! If you know you can't discipline him then you leave him at home and we'll visit you there.

My brother and SIL are far from perfect parents, but when my niece was about 1 1/2 we asked them to join us out to dinner. Their response "Emily's not handling restaurants so well right now. Why don't you guys come over and we'll eat in." Thank you!

ahhnold

Cassandra, you agree with me becuase you're smart. You just don't like my politics;-)

Speaking from experience. It is far easier when a child is at dinner with the parents to simply change the order to "take out" when the rug rat acts up. Trust me, I have done this numerous times. I suppose it is hit or miss with behavior, but when it is bad, get 'em out.

chepar

My family (my parents, siblings, and our kids) are pretty close with the family of one of my BILs - (parents, his siblings, their kids). We often get together during holidays and "just because".

However, over the past year, the behavior of my BIL's nephews has really caused my family to pull back from spending much time with my BIL's family. They are allowed to run wild - whether it be a restaurant, my sister's home, our home.

At a recent get together, I had to physically restrain one of the boys who was jumping up and down and rolling all over my new couch with a greasy chicken drumstick clutched in his hand. The worst part was that at no time did his mother say anything at all while seeing him do this (and worse) - and was upset when I stopped him.

NanoPalos

I live on the opposite end of town from this bakery/coffeehouse but I will now make it a point to get there. I have a friend who frequents it and says their desserts are fabulous. I think many people will look at this scandal as a draw. I do love well behaved children.

swalter518

Cassandra, not sure if your comment was directed at me and my plane story or not, but believe me, I have no problem with people travelling with their children. In fact, we were travelling with our niece (18 mos old at the time) to Disney World. As I said above, it's an Orlando flight, I fully anticipated kids and realize that you can't alway (or hardly ever) control their behavior. That being said, when parents see their child misbehaving, i.e. literally lying sideways on his seat, refusing to put on his seatbelt, kicking the person next to him repeatedly I expect the parent to at least attempt to control or stop the situation. (Picture a temper tantrum where a child would normally throw himself on the floor, kicking and screaming, but on an airplane seat with him in the middle, mom at the window and me on the feet end on the aisle for at least 1 hour.)

mah1980

I too have noticed that bringing kids to dinner dates with non-kid couples is commonplace. Also interesting is that people get offended if you don't want to have small children at a wedding or reception, and will boycott if you don't allow their children to come.

My husband and I discuss the fact that American society has become increasingly conservative in many respects, yet some of the most frequent abusers that I see with respect to bad kids tend to be conservative. That doesn't seem to fit with one of the key components of conservativism- social responsiblity.

A situation described in a post that I've also experienced first hand is when a negligent parent who lets their kids run into people, etc., at restauarants will actually got mad at me when i told the kid it's not nice to hit/run into strangers. it seems like the parent should be embarrassed that they let their kid act so unacceptable that a stranger had to reprimand the child. instead, the parent gets mad at the adult.

JJ5

swalter518, the one and only time in my life that I got bumped to 1st class was to Orlando. I was kicked the entire way, and screams/screams/screams and he (at least 5 years old too)actually tossed his dinner tray at a flight attendent.

I won't go into all the details, but surfice it to say that at the end of the flight, and I was so stunned that I couldn't talk (and for me that says a lot)- the parents SHOW UP FROM COACH to pick him up. They had left him in 1st class with a flight attendant "baby-sitter" arrangement and spent the flight in the back.

My daughter was snickering (she was in the not-kicked seat, but had enough of the screaming etc.)and went up to them and asked what his problem/disability was. She is a special ed teacher.

They answered her, "Oh none, we just like to get some relaxation on vacation." HONESTLY, this did happen.

mah1980

And they didn't act embarrassed when your daughter asked?

bennnie

Thank goodness my children are perfect. Whew....

Just kidding - in fact there were times that they needed to be removed from a store or a restaurant when they were toddlers because they were disturbing others. But in all of those cases I blame myself. Inevitably we had missed a nap or were otherwise thrown off schedule, hence a cranky kid.

Life is all about choices and knowing your limits. Usually the easy choice is the wrong one. The quote about "what are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a nice cafe" is a perfect example. and the answer to that question is "Yes you are not supposed to enjoy yourselves at a nice cafe if you can't keep your kids under control". Many parents with young kids forgo going to places like that because its not the right choice for the kids or other patrons. Unfortunately some people are too self centered to see what is best for their kids.

JJ5

No, mah1980, they didn't act embarrassed. The father was quiet and looked away- even from the boy- and the mother laughed and answered like it was all such fun to be on vacation. Tra-la!

mah1980

that's really sad. i acted more embarrassed when kids i babysat in college misbehaved, and they weren't even my children!!

LoveItaly

Hi Chepar, we have some family members with two little ones. I have not seen them for ages. Like you I just can't take anymore. If I feed them at home my house is trashed. If we go to a restaurant the restaurant is trashed plus the humilitation I have (inspite of the fact that they are not my children) for the poor people at the surronding tables to say nothing of the frazzled waitress or waiter. It doesn't even work in a pizza parlor.

I haven't figured out how to handle this, so I just haven't gotten together with them. It is nothing to do with love. They do not "entertain" in their home in case anyone is wondering why I don't just visit them.

I see photos of their outings. You cannot image the disaster at the various tables, in other peoples homes or restarants. Including food all over the kids, faces, hands, clothes etc. It is disgusting. Uhm, maybe you can imagine .

Anyway it seems that most of us are of the opinion that parents do not do their children any favors by letting them run wild and by not taking the time to teach them courtesy and consideration for others. I actually feel sorry for the children. I cannot imagine they will have the most satisfying of lives. And thanks to all the carying parents that go to the effort and take the time to teach their children how to act responsibly. I know it is not easy. Blessing to all of you.

Cassandra

swalter: my comment was completely general, not directed at you but at the threads in the past where people say kids should be barred from planes and/or parents shouldn't travel with their kids.

ahhnold, I disagree with your politics because I'm smart ;-)