Sagfem

I read the article, and appreciate the posts. This is a very significant issue that seems to be occurring more and more frequently, and is one that impacts not only the "restaurant moments" but the child's adult future. I know parenting is a challenge, and we all need a break from time to time, but would we want to endure our child's disruptive behavior if they were not our child? Deciding this might help us help our children.

I have just read an excellent book that addresses how to provide our children with what they need to have happy childhoods and empowered lives, and as a pediatric nurse, I highly recommend it. It's called "What Kids Need To Succeed", and you can get it at http://www.WhatKidsNeedToSucceed.com , and it's also on amazon. It makes a LOT of sense, and gets right to the point. I have found it illuminating not only for the "kid factor" but also for self-reflection.

We all want the best for our kids, and we want them to be welcomed throughout their childhood and their entire lives. This story is a great place to recognize this and give them the best start to life.

mah1980

I think for many, golden childhood memories don't involve being made to behave. Instead, my best childhood memories involve situations that I would not have enjoyed had I not been previously taught how to behave. I travelled a lot as a child, ate at good restaurants, etc. If my parents had not made clear that they had high expectations for our behavior, then I probably would not be a travel addict or love to eat at good restaurants today.

It's clear that this story has struck a chord. I think it's b/c we've all been in a type of situation where we splurge on a great meal/vacation/etc., only to have it ruined by a parent that won't take their kid(s) outside to calm them down. You would not believe the amount of times I've dealt with crying toddlers at the 10 p.m. showing of a Rated "R" movie.

Kinch500

Wow! A lot of interesting posts. I have a child.

I can’t stand eating in a restaurant and listening to crying or screaming kids or watching them run around unsupervised. That really bothers me.

I had the unfortunate event of going to a movie this past weekend and sitting in front of a kid who kept kicking my seat. I wanted to turn around and ask them to stop but didn’t want to start a big scene in the theater. But I also wanted to get up and sit behind them and kick their seat. (Yes, I know how childish)

I was once grocery shopping with my daughter who was younger and she kept singing. I told her to hush up and an elderly couple that happened to be standing near us said to me not to hush her up that they would rather listen to a child sing than listen to them scream.

I am always being told how wonderfully behaved she is by people. That makes me feel very proud.

I want to slap the parents who tell their kids to stop running, mommy said to stop running, ok stop now, I’m going count to 3, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on. Just an example.

I also can’t stand going to the beach and listening to children SCREAM. Having fun is one thing but constantly screaming when they are in the water just drives me nuts. It makes me think they are in trouble and need help.

Just my feelings.

marilynl

As several previous posters have noted, the problem is unfortunately one of self-centered parents, not misbehaving children per se. Children NEED structure, appreciate rules and a schedule. They want limits to be set, so they can be comfortable.

My daughter years ago had a friend whose parents were unwilling to set limits--their response to every question, such as when should I pick my child up, etc., was "Let's just see how it goes," etc. Their child had no or few limits, including being allowed to watch any movie she wanted. I remember at my daughter's 8th birthday, all the girls were discussing the movies they had seen. This child brought up an R-rated movie, and the other kids looked at her like she was from Mars. By the time she was 10, this girl had learned to set her own limits to coincide with those of her friends, but it couldn't have been easy for her.

vscott

I had my first and only child at 39, and I think lots of older parents assume they can take their children everywhere and because they are older and experienced, that gives them some special talent at managing the little ones.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. My wife and I take our daughter with us every place, but we also have set very strict standards for her behavior. If she doesn't meet them, we leave. Period. And if businesses say they don't want children there, we don't take her.

This is not a commercial message at all, but I did read a wonderful book about setting high expectations for your children and holding them to a standard of discipline. It was "What Kids Need to Succeed" by Andrea Patten and Harry S. Patten. Really smart, no-nonsense advice. Kind of a smack across the face for some of these parents who seem to think they're entitled to inflict their brats on the rest of us.

My wife teaches remedial reading in high school, and she says that the 5-year-olds who have never been held to a standard of behavior are the ones who fall on their faces in her classes, because no one has ever held them responsible for their actions.

jlm_mi

It may be a great book. I don't know, I've never read it. But it does seem strange that not one, but TWO people posted about it on this thread, and for BOTH of them, it's their only post, ever, on fodors.

kmpordagee

First re: "the eye" - it was called the "stink eye" in our house, and you didn't want it aimed in your direction. The consequences were never pleasant.

Second, it's about time that someone finally said "enough" with respect to poorly behaved children in restaurants! Too bad the parents were not receptive to the proprietor's message, but apparently the kids learned their poor behavior from the parents.

BTW, I am a mom to three well behaved (teenage/young adult) girls. I have been known to use the stink eye a time or two. And I would have been mortified if my kids had pulled any of those stunts (yelling, running around) in a public place. How rude!

jersey

I have five children, yes five. And since we had five in seven years, we had no choice but to be ultra firm about being considerate of others. It would have been mayhem otherwise. But it actually worked in our favor. We insisted on manners and being considerate of others. When one of them was unable to hold the standard they were promptly removed. My kids say now, Mom (thats me), always talked too much if they misbehaved, so they'd rather behave then have to suffer a "Mom talk". LOL But when you have five kids people do assume that chaos will follow. One time we were flying to
Hawaii and were flying first class (a lovely treat). You should have seen the faces of the other passengers in first class. LOL Oh the horror! Ten and half hours with children. I think the were most gratified to see that children can behave (with only one or two stern looks at my middle child).

Sartoris...I love kids and there are plenty of times I don't want to be around them. Especially in the theater or on an airplane. And the one certain way to ruin a nice meal is to have some bratty kid running around. But I truely doubt that banning bratty kids will influence the parents. Those parents assume they are better then the rest of us.

chefotto

As a restaurant veteran, I can attest to the deterioration in children's behavior in fine dining environments. It is abuse of space and abuse of the other guests, who pay quite a bit for a good meal.

The problem, we surmise, lies not in the parents' inability to restrain children on special occasions, but in
a) the parents own lack of knowledge of appropriate behavior in public places and b) in their failure to teach manners at home. Children who shout at table at home or eat in front of the TV can't be expected to behave in a restaurant where they lack the entertainment they are used to. It's boring for them. And, the restaurant is not a place to discipline children. Table training needs to have happened well before the visit, or better said, have been part of a consistent environment.

When I see mothers with their kids eating I always feel a little sorry for the moms, too, since they are not getting as much out of the experience as they might in the company of adults. There are terrific places to take kids – the zoo, the local science museum, beach, mountains, fairs, play grounds – but restaurants were not conceived to meet their needs. They are meant for adults with well developed palates. (most kids don’t like a lot of foods, which, trust me, is not a joy for most chefs.) Develop children’s palates elsewhere – cook with them, go to a farmers’ market. Assuming they aren’t going to die young, they will have fifty years to go to restaurants after they reach adulthood. They only have about twelve to be children.

There is also the issue of which restaurants to take children to. There are restaurants which are fine for toddlers, who have at best a five minute attention span, and those which are not. Children of five or six or seven won't get a great deal out of very fine dining, but family friendly restaurants are certainly a good idea. Children over eight should have the attention stamina to make it through a short meal, but until they reach pre adolescence, really dressed up locations still probably ask too much.

The mode of taking small children to ridiculously expensive restaurants always seems to me to be more about the parents' bragging rights than about the welfare of the kids.

As for a book for parents, I highly recommend and often give the Chronicle Books edition of "The Three Martini Play Date."

kswl

Differing opinions are what make the world such a varied and wonderful place. I had no idea this was such a controversy; our children are mostly grown, and we live in an area of the South where there are few "fine" restaurants where the mere presence of children would spoil the experience for other diners.

Our kids were little when we lived in Manhattan, and we have many happy memories of taking them to Easter brunch at the Essex House on CPS, to Tavern on the Green at Christmas, and to many other less-known but wonderful restaurants in the city. Not once did we feel unwelcome; the lovely venues usually inspired the children to their best behavior. We taught them manners and as they became older they learned more complex social skills at cotillion. I think many parents must simply assume that their kids will learn or achieve these skills simply through societal "osmosis."

But I will say (and have said it before) that the fact that we did not, and do not, have a television has probably had a greater impact on our children's behavior than anything else we've done or left undone. They never saw sitcoms of bratty kids getting into trouble and being constantly bailed out by exasperated but willing adults. They didn't have their attention spans shortened by the zooming 10 second images of talking fruit and number countdowns on shows like Sesame Street.

We like our kids, more than we like most adults. When I see this kind of comment: "When I see mothers with their kids eating I always feel a little sorry for the moms, too, since they are not getting as much out of the experience as they might in the company of adults." I have the opposite reaction---of feeling sad for the adults who don't seem to enjoy the company of their own children.

jlm_mi

kswl - That was my response to that comment as well, and I almost posted it last night but decided not to. Some parents love a night out just for adults to get away from the kids. Others really and truly prefer to spend their time with their children and are no sacrificing adult time to take their children with them.

Thankfully, both types of parents have options available to them to satisfy their own personal desires and needs, but there's no need to feel sorry for a mom who is out to dinner with her children.