Jeff1

Is your tour to see "cartoneros" the "Real BA"?

I've traveled a lot on business to BA (including the Province).

My company is based in Los Angeles and (as in NY and other cities) we have many homeless families here. We regularly take them food and clothing. We see them at night digging through the trash for cans and cardboard.

This is a sad way in which a GROUP in the USA lives. But, I would not call it "THE REAL LOS ANGELES" or "THE REAL NEW YORK". Yes, BA is poorer, but you should not take people to see cartoneros and call it "THE REAL Buenos Aires".

When you call your tour the "real" Buenos Aires, you are indicating that the majority of portenos live as the homeless live (in the USA, or anywhere).

drdawggy

1. Carteneros are not homeless people digging for food. They are recycling cardboard as a means of earning money.

2. In the United States real rates of poverty are less than 10%. In Argentina the rate is 50%. So the poor are much more representative of the real Buenos Aires than a look at street people in LA.

3. AV's tour is not limited to Cartaneros....Part of his goal is to get people out of the tourist district, to experience life as ARgentinos experience it, by taking the train to work from their homes in the suburbs, eating in a typical suburban restaurant, etc.....

avrooster

Thank you, Doc.

I was wondering whether Jeff1 had really read my post, before starting this thread.

Jeff1

As you say, 50% of the people of Buenos Aires may be poor according to US standards.

But, 50% of the people of Buenos Aires are NOT cartoneros.

That is why seeing cartoneros as a "spectacle" (as you say) is "NOT THE REAL BUENOS AIRES".

avrooster

In my post of June 21, I admitted: “perhaps the use of the word "spectacle" was unfortunate.”

I still wonder if you have really read my "The REAL Buenos Aires" thread, before starting this one.

Jeff1

I know that criticizm is always difficult. You say you regret using the word "SPECTACLE" regarding this small group of the population of Buenos Aires.

How do you think the people who are cartoneros feel to have you bring guided tours of tourists from the US and Europe who come to OGLE them this way? And then after the ogling you say you take the tourist group to a NICE DINNER.

That is why people later talk about the "UGLY TOURIST".

One could also find a small group of very poor people doing something similar here in Los Angeles and call it "THE REAL LOS ANGELES".

We regularly help the poor here in Los Angeles by bringing them food and clothing, but we DON'T BRING THEM TOURIST GROUPS!

This is why taking US and European tourists to OGLE cartoneros is "NOT THE REAL BUENOS AIRES".

avrooster

As far as I am concerned, this exchange is OVER.

I'll let the people who have taken my tour during the last few days and the many people who will take it during the next few weeks do my "talking" for me.

Jeff1

Take those poor people food and clothing. Not tourists to ogle them.

What is WRONG IS WRONG.

No matter how many people want to do it.