Vacation apartment registration begins in Paris 1 Oct
Jul 7th, 2017, 02:30 PM
#41
Stu; We are waiting for friends to decide if they can meet us when they are returning from Israel. That will be in mid-May.
If we don't meet up, my wife and I could easily go in mid-June.
You can track me on my post [A Paris GTG] and more definitive info will happen in late September.
If we don't meet up, my wife and I could easily go in mid-June.
You can track me on my post [A Paris GTG] and more definitive info will happen in late September.
Jul 7th, 2017, 07:34 PM
#43
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I just told you - the online form has to be connected to the property owner's fiscal number, Taxe d'Habitation and other references that cannot be faked. There is no way of getting around the paper trail.
Jul 7th, 2017, 10:31 PM
#46
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Hotels cannot "jack up prices" because they are tightly regulated as to price per square meter, and the ratings of the "star system" - which actually sets prices based on amenities.
If you want a good deal on a hotel, you should use discount websites such as booking.
FNAIM and www.splm-France.fr have been fighting City Hall for many years. It seems that their only concern is to collect membership fees. They have absolutely no effect on the law that was just
passed.
wesleymarch - It is not possible for "gestapo" neighbours to complain about illegal apartments. The building's board of directors must designate someone to document suspected illegal apartments. Then, the BOD must compile a dossier and bring it to the Mayor's Task Force, who will investigate the dossier and take appropriate action.
Perhaps with your extensive special needs, you should not travel abroad.
Other people with dietary and other restrictions seem to make out just fine, with a few adjustments.
If you want a good deal on a hotel, you should use discount websites such as booking.
FNAIM and www.splm-France.fr have been fighting City Hall for many years. It seems that their only concern is to collect membership fees. They have absolutely no effect on the law that was just
passed.
wesleymarch - It is not possible for "gestapo" neighbours to complain about illegal apartments. The building's board of directors must designate someone to document suspected illegal apartments. Then, the BOD must compile a dossier and bring it to the Mayor's Task Force, who will investigate the dossier and take appropriate action.
Perhaps with your extensive special needs, you should not travel abroad.
Other people with dietary and other restrictions seem to make out just fine, with a few adjustments.
Jul 7th, 2017, 10:40 PM
#47
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scrb11 - there are legal rental fees that may not be surpassed, if a tenant signs a 1 year lease.
It is based on usable square meters, and if the apartment is furnished or not.
Furnished apartments must supply appliances, curtains, and basic furniture.
An unfurnished apartment is empty, except for a toilet, bathroom sink and tub or shower, and possibly a kitchen sink.
It is based on usable square meters, and if the apartment is furnished or not.
Furnished apartments must supply appliances, curtains, and basic furniture.
An unfurnished apartment is empty, except for a toilet, bathroom sink and tub or shower, and possibly a kitchen sink.
Jul 8th, 2017, 02:11 AM
#48
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Envierges - a lot of the slowdown in paperwork is due to people who have died and have absolutely no heirs who are living.
This happened in my last apartment building, and the City is still dealing with it 10 years later, and probably longer.
In this case, the City can
re-appropriate the property and sell it, but the notaries and attorneys must be certain that there are no heirs.
This happened in my last apartment building, and the City is still dealing with it 10 years later, and probably longer.
In this case, the City can
re-appropriate the property and sell it, but the notaries and attorneys must be certain that there are no heirs.
Jul 8th, 2017, 02:13 AM
#49
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@fuzzbucket
IME, nothing stops a nosy neighbor from being nosy. Nothing.
As for special needs, I don't consider mine to be "extensive," or for that matter, all that special. Many people just take what they can get, and they overpay for it. Businesses tend to really like those customers. (Some of them are referred to as suckers.)
I have no will or desire to stop traveling abroad, and I'm certainly not going to let my experience with Paris stop me. I know of other places to go where I'm treated more generously and have just as much fun, if not more fun.
IME, nothing stops a nosy neighbor from being nosy. Nothing.
As for special needs, I don't consider mine to be "extensive," or for that matter, all that special. Many people just take what they can get, and they overpay for it. Businesses tend to really like those customers. (Some of them are referred to as suckers.)
I have no will or desire to stop traveling abroad, and I'm certainly not going to let my experience with Paris stop me. I know of other places to go where I'm treated more generously and have just as much fun, if not more fun.
Jul 8th, 2017, 06:40 AM
#50
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I can't imagine someone refusing to travel to a city because they regulate who can rent out private vacation apts, and the conditions. This is a very strange attitude given this business didn't even exist until fairly recently. In fact, the conditions are pretty lenient and anyone who really is doing this just for a little extra money when they are on vacation, etc., is perfectly fine, it's those running businesses who are running into problems.
If someone were doing this next to my apt, I'd be a "nosy" gestapo neighbor also because that would be my home, and I wouldn't appreciate a neighbor giving out private building access codes to anyone on the internet (which is what they do for the Digicode system), and strangers trooping in and out every few days of my building. A lot of tourists ARE very inconsiderate and noisy, also, I was in one apt. in Barcelona that had about 3 20something German guys who got drunk every night and made a lot of noise. The fact that one person may be quiet doesn't mean a neighbor shouldn't object to someone doing this. I wasn't noisy, but others can be. Barcelona regulates apts, also, I don't see how this hampers any tourist's ability to travel. Also, tourists aren't keeping the same schedules as people just going to/from work and having ordinary lives. Also, many tourists try to cram many people into very small apts because they don't care for a few days, but that increases the noise level.
Paris hotel prices are actually very reasonable for a city of that size and the economy, I think. They are not overpriced.
If someone were doing this next to my apt, I'd be a "nosy" gestapo neighbor also because that would be my home, and I wouldn't appreciate a neighbor giving out private building access codes to anyone on the internet (which is what they do for the Digicode system), and strangers trooping in and out every few days of my building. A lot of tourists ARE very inconsiderate and noisy, also, I was in one apt. in Barcelona that had about 3 20something German guys who got drunk every night and made a lot of noise. The fact that one person may be quiet doesn't mean a neighbor shouldn't object to someone doing this. I wasn't noisy, but others can be. Barcelona regulates apts, also, I don't see how this hampers any tourist's ability to travel. Also, tourists aren't keeping the same schedules as people just going to/from work and having ordinary lives. Also, many tourists try to cram many people into very small apts because they don't care for a few days, but that increases the noise level.
Paris hotel prices are actually very reasonable for a city of that size and the economy, I think. They are not overpriced.
Jul 8th, 2017, 07:52 AM
#51
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No there were vacation apartments in the '90s.
On the Internet!
Airbnb got a lot of attention as a high-flying American startup. If it had been founded in France, they wouldn't be trying to scale back vacation rentals, which has been going on for decades. Then again, France is caught up in the old ways, beholden to hotels and cab drivers, which is why they also try to root out Uber, again a high-profile American startup.
On the Internet!
Airbnb got a lot of attention as a high-flying American startup. If it had been founded in France, they wouldn't be trying to scale back vacation rentals, which has been going on for decades. Then again, France is caught up in the old ways, beholden to hotels and cab drivers, which is why they also try to root out Uber, again a high-profile American startup.
Jul 8th, 2017, 09:07 AM
#52
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VRBO, Arbitel and other online platforms have been opérating in Europe - and Paris - since at least the mid-80's, when Rick Steves and Lonely Planet started promoting family travel.
Thé tipping point came when VRBO was bought by HomeAway, and also when HomeAway started snapping up smaller companies. This was in the early 90's. Then everybody started running illegal hotels.
AirBnB started as à "couch surfing" opération, then exploded, just managing to stay ahead of the law in most states and in Europe.
Thé tipping point came when VRBO was bought by HomeAway, and also when HomeAway started snapping up smaller companies. This was in the early 90's. Then everybody started running illegal hotels.
AirBnB started as à "couch surfing" opération, then exploded, just managing to stay ahead of the law in most states and in Europe.
Jul 8th, 2017, 09:57 AM
#53
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It really bothers me when posters, like yourself, fuzzbucket, talk about Airbnb as "--stay(ing) ahead of the law in most states and Europe." You make it sound like some sort of criminal enterprise.
In fact, for most of the world it fulfills a legitimate need in providing lower cost accommodation for travelers, and needed income for folks with unused space. It is only in a few densely urbanized and touristic urban centers where the concept clashes with the need for providing lower cost housing for workers in the urban centers.
As may be obvious, we are Airbnb hosts who make our guest room available in a small town in the Pacific Northwest, and I do not consider that to be illegal, immoral, or fattening, much less an infringement on anyone's rights. To us, it has the advantages of making use of unused space, providing quarters for tourists, and giving us the funds to travel to neat places, on occasion.
In fact, for most of the world it fulfills a legitimate need in providing lower cost accommodation for travelers, and needed income for folks with unused space. It is only in a few densely urbanized and touristic urban centers where the concept clashes with the need for providing lower cost housing for workers in the urban centers.
As may be obvious, we are Airbnb hosts who make our guest room available in a small town in the Pacific Northwest, and I do not consider that to be illegal, immoral, or fattening, much less an infringement on anyone's rights. To us, it has the advantages of making use of unused space, providing quarters for tourists, and giving us the funds to travel to neat places, on occasion.
Jul 8th, 2017, 10:35 AM
#54
While airbnb is totally (100%) legit in many places (maybe even most places) you can't whitewash the fact that in some cities they are not much better than Craig's list or any other site that accepts listings whether legal or not. If airbnb hadn't exploded on the scene and become the 900 lb gorilla in the travel industry, we probably wouldn't be in this mess. Maybe just an example of unintended consequences (or maybe not) but by listing hundreds/thousands of properties in cities like NY and Paris, and Santa Monica and many others -- they have brought this on themselves.
Jul 8th, 2017, 11:05 AM
#55
nukesafe; I have bookmarked a number of apartments in Paris for next year. Most are AirBnB with some VRBO.
When I looked at Air France for flights in May, they had senior rates and the total for two including taxes was $1220 US.
Looking good.
When I looked at Air France for flights in May, they had senior rates and the total for two including taxes was $1220 US.
Looking good.
Jul 8th, 2017, 12:13 PM
#57
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Yes, Iris, it is looking good. In January I saw a fare from Seattle to Frankfurt, home from Paris for $554 on Delta/Air France, and jumped on it. Leave in late September. That gave me a lot of time to plan, and to worry about my Airbnb apartment disappearing. My host does not have a registration number, yet, but appears to be legal, as he actually lives there most of the time.
Jul 8th, 2017, 12:27 PM
#58
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>> but by listing hundreds/thousands of properties in cities like NY and Paris, and Santa Monica and many others -- they have brought this on themselves.<<
And in San Francisco - where Airbnb is located. They donated heavily to the campaign of a SF supervisor who was running for a "higher" office. The candidate managed to pass a Airbnb "Control" law that was totally un-enforcable. However, the law managed to delay any other laws for around 3 years. Airbnb has dragged their feet on collecting city taxes, they dragged their feet on providing names and other rental info about their listings. Finally, after about 5-7 years (don't hold me to that) San Francisco lawmakers recently passed a law very similar to the law Paris has. It's waaaay too early to tell if it is working.
nuksafe:
Our close friends (college roommate, best man in our wedding) live in Calistoga in the Napa Valley. Our friends built the gravel road off Hwy 29 (main road through the Napa Valley) to their property, maintained the bridge on this road over the Napa River, and installed an entrance gate off Hwy 29 that is password controlled. Their neighbor's house (who also uses this gravel road, bridge, and entrance gate) was sold about 3 years ago & purchased by some San Francisco Realtors. Our friends then noticed different people showing up regularly at the neighbor's house & often having large parties, and once even shot off a gun to shoot some birds out of a tree. Our friends did some digging & discovered that their neighbor's house was now a full time Airbnb vacation rental. They called the Calistoga "people in charge" and found out that Airbnb vacation rentals in Calistoga are totally illegal. But the city has next to no time available to run around & do much enforcing. There are some liability issues involving dozens & dozens of people now having the password code to their gate, driving on a private road, and crossing over a private bridge over the Napa River. Is it possible that the realtors in SF and also the thousands of people employed in San Francisco by Airbnb didn't know that a popular tourist destination 45 mins away does not allow unlicensed & unregulated vacation rentals????
There are dozens of cases reported in the SF Chronicle, where people in San Francisco rent out an unused room or an in-law to supplement their income (like you do). I don't see any problem with this (unless the in-law is an illegal one - like we had for a time). There are also dozens of cases like this "actual" one:
Two brothers stay in a rent-controlled 2 bedroom apt in SF. Their rent is around $1,500 a month (about 1/4 market rate). One brother has a full time job in the legal profession in Washington DC. The other has a full time job in Seattle. They rent the apt out through Airbnb for around $350 per day. It is usually fully rented.
Stu Dudley
And in San Francisco - where Airbnb is located. They donated heavily to the campaign of a SF supervisor who was running for a "higher" office. The candidate managed to pass a Airbnb "Control" law that was totally un-enforcable. However, the law managed to delay any other laws for around 3 years. Airbnb has dragged their feet on collecting city taxes, they dragged their feet on providing names and other rental info about their listings. Finally, after about 5-7 years (don't hold me to that) San Francisco lawmakers recently passed a law very similar to the law Paris has. It's waaaay too early to tell if it is working.
nuksafe:
Our close friends (college roommate, best man in our wedding) live in Calistoga in the Napa Valley. Our friends built the gravel road off Hwy 29 (main road through the Napa Valley) to their property, maintained the bridge on this road over the Napa River, and installed an entrance gate off Hwy 29 that is password controlled. Their neighbor's house (who also uses this gravel road, bridge, and entrance gate) was sold about 3 years ago & purchased by some San Francisco Realtors. Our friends then noticed different people showing up regularly at the neighbor's house & often having large parties, and once even shot off a gun to shoot some birds out of a tree. Our friends did some digging & discovered that their neighbor's house was now a full time Airbnb vacation rental. They called the Calistoga "people in charge" and found out that Airbnb vacation rentals in Calistoga are totally illegal. But the city has next to no time available to run around & do much enforcing. There are some liability issues involving dozens & dozens of people now having the password code to their gate, driving on a private road, and crossing over a private bridge over the Napa River. Is it possible that the realtors in SF and also the thousands of people employed in San Francisco by Airbnb didn't know that a popular tourist destination 45 mins away does not allow unlicensed & unregulated vacation rentals????
There are dozens of cases reported in the SF Chronicle, where people in San Francisco rent out an unused room or an in-law to supplement their income (like you do). I don't see any problem with this (unless the in-law is an illegal one - like we had for a time). There are also dozens of cases like this "actual" one:
Two brothers stay in a rent-controlled 2 bedroom apt in SF. Their rent is around $1,500 a month (about 1/4 market rate). One brother has a full time job in the legal profession in Washington DC. The other has a full time job in Seattle. They rent the apt out through Airbnb for around $350 per day. It is usually fully rented.
Stu Dudley
Jul 8th, 2017, 02:18 PM
#59
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Some people here are so self-absorbed that they think these laws are about them - enacted so they can't stay in an apartment in Paris.
The laws were enacted for the benefit of the residents of the locales, so they don't have strangers trooping in and out of their building. The laws are also for the benefit of residents of the city . The cities referenced - Paris, NY, San Francisco - all have very expensive real estate markets and places that are purchased by investors to rent out by the night takes residential property off of the market and raises prices for the locals. In NYC, like London, Russian (and other) oligarchs park their money in real estate and rarely actually use the property.
Rentals like Nukesafe's do not take properties off the rental markets. They are the sort of short-term rentals that Air BnB and VBRO said they wanted to list. Now that those are the only rentals they can list they are crying "unfair."
For those crying about short-term rentals being more regulated - this is not about YOU. It is about the people who live in the city.
The laws were enacted for the benefit of the residents of the locales, so they don't have strangers trooping in and out of their building. The laws are also for the benefit of residents of the city . The cities referenced - Paris, NY, San Francisco - all have very expensive real estate markets and places that are purchased by investors to rent out by the night takes residential property off of the market and raises prices for the locals. In NYC, like London, Russian (and other) oligarchs park their money in real estate and rarely actually use the property.
Rentals like Nukesafe's do not take properties off the rental markets. They are the sort of short-term rentals that Air BnB and VBRO said they wanted to list. Now that those are the only rentals they can list they are crying "unfair."
For those crying about short-term rentals being more regulated - this is not about YOU. It is about the people who live in the city.
Jul 8th, 2017, 02:47 PM
#60
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>>I can't imagine someone refusing to travel to a city because they regulate who can rent out private vacation apts, and the conditions.<<
That's funny. I know several people who will cross Paris off their list when these changes take effect come December.
>>This is a very strange attitude given this business didn't even exist until fairly recently.<<
Excuse me? I've been renting vacation apartments in Paris for over 20 years. Even before the internet, you could walk into several realty offices and cut a pretty accommodating deal. Ah, the good old days.
I think a "strange attitude" is someone who admits to spying on their hotel neighbor and reporting them to management because you suspect they're doing business in their room.
@Kathie
You can get off your high horse now. The laws are about money. Not self-absorbed tourists. I also don't buy the notion that every apartment in a cosmopolitan city is someone's "home."
That's funny. I know several people who will cross Paris off their list when these changes take effect come December.
>>This is a very strange attitude given this business didn't even exist until fairly recently.<<
Excuse me? I've been renting vacation apartments in Paris for over 20 years. Even before the internet, you could walk into several realty offices and cut a pretty accommodating deal. Ah, the good old days.
I think a "strange attitude" is someone who admits to spying on their hotel neighbor and reporting them to management because you suspect they're doing business in their room.
@Kathie
You can get off your high horse now. The laws are about money. Not self-absorbed tourists. I also don't buy the notion that every apartment in a cosmopolitan city is someone's "home."
