Vacation apartment registration begins in Paris 1 Oct
Jul 6th, 2017, 09:22 PM
#21
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The link sarastro provided was in French, so here is it's essence for those who need it:
There have been 5,000 apartments controlled by agents each year.
Many of them were fined 25,000 € for renting illegally, but the fine was recently increased to 50,000 €.
AirBnB is used as the generic term for all internet listing platforms.
AirBnB claims to list 60,000 apartments, while other platforms combined total 20,000.
The room charges approach - or even exceed - traditional hotel room charges, which is illegal, due to the government's legal rental rate per square meter. There are also safety concerns, as many buildings do not meet safety and sanitary codes.
Registration begins online on October 1, 2017. By the end of December 2017, all internet listings without a valid registration number will be blocked from advertising on internet platforms.
People who wish to rent for a period of 120 days (legal vacation time), will also have to apply for a registration number.
Everyone is expected to report tax revenue, even if they will not owe any tax.
The goal, according to the Mayor's Office, is to return illegal apartments to working Parisiens who pay taxes.
There are other plans for low-income housing for people who need it.
There will be a period during which investors will have to decide if it is worth their investment to continue - and not surpass the legal rental charge per square meter - or will be forced to sell.
The going rate per square meter will remain relatively the same as it has been in the "demand" neighborhoods, based as it is on arrondissement, square metrage and condition of the building.
Hotel rates will remain the same, based as they are on square metrage, amenities and the "star" system.
The government has been working on recuperating empty office and other disaffected buildings, which will be turned into mixed housing.
There have been 5,000 apartments controlled by agents each year.
Many of them were fined 25,000 € for renting illegally, but the fine was recently increased to 50,000 €.
AirBnB is used as the generic term for all internet listing platforms.
AirBnB claims to list 60,000 apartments, while other platforms combined total 20,000.
The room charges approach - or even exceed - traditional hotel room charges, which is illegal, due to the government's legal rental rate per square meter. There are also safety concerns, as many buildings do not meet safety and sanitary codes.
Registration begins online on October 1, 2017. By the end of December 2017, all internet listings without a valid registration number will be blocked from advertising on internet platforms.
People who wish to rent for a period of 120 days (legal vacation time), will also have to apply for a registration number.
Everyone is expected to report tax revenue, even if they will not owe any tax.
The goal, according to the Mayor's Office, is to return illegal apartments to working Parisiens who pay taxes.
There are other plans for low-income housing for people who need it.
There will be a period during which investors will have to decide if it is worth their investment to continue - and not surpass the legal rental charge per square meter - or will be forced to sell.
The going rate per square meter will remain relatively the same as it has been in the "demand" neighborhoods, based as it is on arrondissement, square metrage and condition of the building.
Hotel rates will remain the same, based as they are on square metrage, amenities and the "star" system.
The government has been working on recuperating empty office and other disaffected buildings, which will be turned into mixed housing.
Jul 6th, 2017, 09:39 PM
#22
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Guest Apartment Services does belong to FNAIM - a lobbying service which has been fighting to convince the Mayor's Office to make exceptions for their claims that all their apartments are legal, because everyone in the building "is OK with that".
ParisPerfect either has come to terms with the City of Paris and is paying commercial taxes as a hotel, or is using the property as a time-share, which is legal as long as they pay commercial taxes.
ParisPerfect either has come to terms with the City of Paris and is paying commercial taxes as a hotel, or is using the property as a time-share, which is legal as long as they pay commercial taxes.
Jul 6th, 2017, 11:46 PM
#23
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www.splm-france.fr is also a lobbying service, similar to FNAIM.
The fact that credit cards are accepted - either in France or in the US - means nothing. Some people may report rental income, some do not, and some do not pay taxes on rental income.
There are always solutions to hiding money.
The fact that credit cards are accepted - either in France or in the US - means nothing. Some people may report rental income, some do not, and some do not pay taxes on rental income.
There are always solutions to hiding money.
Jul 7th, 2017, 05:20 AM
#24
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The purpose of registration seems quite obvious to me. In Paris, government regulation and the BIG hotel business WINS. Nosy gestapo neighbors win, too. Gone may be the days of finding affordable short-term space in Paris that comes with a working kitchen. Gone may be the days of families larger than 3 finding affordable vacation space, period.
Since I'm mostly a single traveler, vacation apartments appealed to me because I'm on a restricted diet. If I want to live a life free from emergency visits to a hospital, I can't consume the typical things that hotels in France offer for breakfast. I can't dine in any old restaurant easily. The only way for me to protect and control my diet, I must have access to a burner and a refrigerator. Cost matters, too. I can't afford high-priced hotels. Lastly, I can't live, sleep, or function in a 9x10' room. It's too dangerous for me.
As a single traveler, typical hotels have no interest in me. They would only care about me if I was wealthy. The perks are reserved for those who have lots of money. I don't even consider my needs a "perk." I view them as common sense necessities.
I understand the concept of a few bad apples spoiling everything. With popularity mounting in the last decade or 2, the bad apples had to have grown. No apartment owner (or neighbor) ever complained about my presence. I've made quite a few pen pals among the neighbors I've met through the years. Some have even stayed in my U.S. home as a welcome guest. One apartment owner in France returned the cleaning fee after I returned home. She wrote, "You left my flat cleaner than the housekeeper."
As a result of this change, I don't see myself visiting Paris anymore. I have always enjoyed my visits in the past, but I see the place becoming ever more expensive and less accommodating. Luckily, I'm not romantically involved with Paris. I can find happiness elsewhere.
Since I'm mostly a single traveler, vacation apartments appealed to me because I'm on a restricted diet. If I want to live a life free from emergency visits to a hospital, I can't consume the typical things that hotels in France offer for breakfast. I can't dine in any old restaurant easily. The only way for me to protect and control my diet, I must have access to a burner and a refrigerator. Cost matters, too. I can't afford high-priced hotels. Lastly, I can't live, sleep, or function in a 9x10' room. It's too dangerous for me.
As a single traveler, typical hotels have no interest in me. They would only care about me if I was wealthy. The perks are reserved for those who have lots of money. I don't even consider my needs a "perk." I view them as common sense necessities.
I understand the concept of a few bad apples spoiling everything. With popularity mounting in the last decade or 2, the bad apples had to have grown. No apartment owner (or neighbor) ever complained about my presence. I've made quite a few pen pals among the neighbors I've met through the years. Some have even stayed in my U.S. home as a welcome guest. One apartment owner in France returned the cleaning fee after I returned home. She wrote, "You left my flat cleaner than the housekeeper."
As a result of this change, I don't see myself visiting Paris anymore. I have always enjoyed my visits in the past, but I see the place becoming ever more expensive and less accommodating. Luckily, I'm not romantically involved with Paris. I can find happiness elsewhere.
Jul 7th, 2017, 06:32 AM
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I think we can all expect fake registration numbers. Human nature is what it is.
As for expanded apart-hotel options, I think the obstacle is Paris itself. Where in the city can a hotel operator find buildings to convert at a cost that makes sense? (This would be the same in almost any major city in the world, obviously.)
Furthermore, if illegal apartment rentals are reducing affordable housing for Parisians, would not converting apartment buildings to apart-hotels do the same?
As for expanded apart-hotel options, I think the obstacle is Paris itself. Where in the city can a hotel operator find buildings to convert at a cost that makes sense? (This would be the same in almost any major city in the world, obviously.)
Furthermore, if illegal apartment rentals are reducing affordable housing for Parisians, would not converting apartment buildings to apart-hotels do the same?
Jul 7th, 2017, 06:53 AM
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It will be interesting to see how this registration works. Paris is fighting its housing crisis and super elevated property prices in comparison to the rest of France, in many ways. Another is the leveling of a 60% increase of the habitation tax on secondary residences that went into effect this year. Recently, Paris pushed through an increase of that tax to 250% from 60%. This must be okayed by Parliament with no date specified for that vote. Perhaps this might seem unfair but Paris has not previously noted a differential between resident and non-resident property taxes
Jul 7th, 2017, 06:55 AM
#30
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<i>After October 1, if an apartment has a registration number it's safe to book?</i>
Generally yes.
The city is not going to allow anyone who is not an owner/resident to obtain a registration number. I should think that registration numbers will originate with one´s taxe d´habitation (real estate tax) information already on file with the city.
The registration numbers will provide the government with a paper trail with which to easily locate and fine violators. But with fines now at 50000€, there might be little incentive to cheat the system.
Official registration starts in October. Enforcement starts at the beginning of December.
Airbnb and other on line platforms are already on board with the new requirement. It should make the rental process simpler for everyone.
Generally yes.
The city is not going to allow anyone who is not an owner/resident to obtain a registration number. I should think that registration numbers will originate with one´s taxe d´habitation (real estate tax) information already on file with the city.
The registration numbers will provide the government with a paper trail with which to easily locate and fine violators. But with fines now at 50000€, there might be little incentive to cheat the system.
Official registration starts in October. Enforcement starts at the beginning of December.
Airbnb and other on line platforms are already on board with the new requirement. It should make the rental process simpler for everyone.
Jul 7th, 2017, 07:43 AM
#31
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There was an article in the NY Times a couple of days ago about this.
https://nyti.ms/2uKcP5l
-Airbnb and other on line platforms are already on board with the new requirement. It should make the rental process simpler for everyone.-
Here's hopin'...
https://nyti.ms/2uKcP5l
-Airbnb and other on line platforms are already on board with the new requirement. It should make the rental process simpler for everyone.-
Here's hopin'...
Jul 7th, 2017, 07:54 AM
#32
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Just so readers don’t think this is all directed at tourists
In addition to what I mentioned above there are other plans afoot to improve the Paris housing situation. Will they work . . .anybody’s guess
According to some reports there are around 100,000 vacant apartments in Paris. This figure has remained pretty constant through the years I’ve lived in Paris. Various efforts have been tried to release these apartment into the rental market with little result. Now the effort is also concentrating on making charges high enough to force people to rent or sell.
As mentioned in other posts many of the owners who are parking their money in appreciating real estate will probably not be affected by increased taxation.
Two of the reasons often given for these vacancies are 1. The slowness in settling estates. 2. The slowness of French courts in evicting for non-payment of rent or damages caused. Thus many are reluctant to rent because the support for owners is almost non-existent. Nowhere in any of these new pronouncements is there any mentioned push to support owners by getting the French court system to react more quickly.
In addition to what I mentioned above there are other plans afoot to improve the Paris housing situation. Will they work . . .anybody’s guess
According to some reports there are around 100,000 vacant apartments in Paris. This figure has remained pretty constant through the years I’ve lived in Paris. Various efforts have been tried to release these apartment into the rental market with little result. Now the effort is also concentrating on making charges high enough to force people to rent or sell.
As mentioned in other posts many of the owners who are parking their money in appreciating real estate will probably not be affected by increased taxation.
Two of the reasons often given for these vacancies are 1. The slowness in settling estates. 2. The slowness of French courts in evicting for non-payment of rent or damages caused. Thus many are reluctant to rent because the support for owners is almost non-existent. Nowhere in any of these new pronouncements is there any mentioned push to support owners by getting the French court system to react more quickly.
Jul 7th, 2017, 08:16 AM
#33
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Two more strategies:
More:
Building of new cities inside Paris in areas of now unused rail tracks as in Batignolles, the 13th south of the library and in the 19th from Porte de la Villette to Porte d'Aubervilliers.
Improving transportation links by extending the metro beyond the perif, completing the tram lines to a full surround of Paris, rerouting buses to serve outer areas without going through the center of the city.
Although as tourists, apartment registration is your concern,there is a big picture of which tourist rentals are only a small part.
More:
Building of new cities inside Paris in areas of now unused rail tracks as in Batignolles, the 13th south of the library and in the 19th from Porte de la Villette to Porte d'Aubervilliers.
Improving transportation links by extending the metro beyond the perif, completing the tram lines to a full surround of Paris, rerouting buses to serve outer areas without going through the center of the city.
Although as tourists, apartment registration is your concern,there is a big picture of which tourist rentals are only a small part.
Jul 7th, 2017, 08:47 AM
#34
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<According to some reports there are around 100,000 vacant apartments in Paris. >
This is an enormous problem in London as well--ghost towers and ghost mansions owned by shell companies as "investments" which are really more like money laundering schemes. This type of "investor" drives up real estate prices without adding anything else to the economy--they're not even vacation rentals, for pete's sake.
Brexit may or may not prove an inadvertent solution to this problem in London.
This is an enormous problem in London as well--ghost towers and ghost mansions owned by shell companies as "investments" which are really more like money laundering schemes. This type of "investor" drives up real estate prices without adding anything else to the economy--they're not even vacation rentals, for pete's sake.
Brexit may or may not prove an inadvertent solution to this problem in London.
Jul 7th, 2017, 09:07 AM
#35
I have been called Odd, immoral and everything in between on these threads. SO BE IT!
Next year, my wife and I will be in Paris next year for a week. Living like a Parisian is a bunch of crap. Parisians are wonderful, but I live like an American.
We will stay in and apartment or a hotel that fits my needs. I can now walk 3, 4 5 miles, but don't want to waste any or those miles, say from near the Pantheon, where we have stayed before. NO Metro for either my wife or me.
I have enjoyed the interesting discussion over the last three years and I THINK I can now move on without any innuendoes.
I know Pariswat is watching with interest, as we have engaged many times before, but I will have a glass of wine with anyone next year.
Next year, my wife and I will be in Paris next year for a week. Living like a Parisian is a bunch of crap. Parisians are wonderful, but I live like an American.
We will stay in and apartment or a hotel that fits my needs. I can now walk 3, 4 5 miles, but don't want to waste any or those miles, say from near the Pantheon, where we have stayed before. NO Metro for either my wife or me.
I have enjoyed the interesting discussion over the last three years and I THINK I can now move on without any innuendoes.
I know Pariswat is watching with interest, as we have engaged many times before, but I will have a glass of wine with anyone next year.
Jul 7th, 2017, 02:09 PM
#40
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There is no possibility of anyone getting a bogus registration numbet, due to the fact that the on-line application form requires your fiscal number from your Taxe d'Habitation form, as well as other pertinent information.
One mistake and you won't receive your registration number.
One mistake and you won't receive your registration number.
