iris1745

Kathie; I have no idea what you just posted and I say that respectfully.

For me, or we, took 4 other family to Paris in 2015. We rented the apartment in 2014.

Next year , I expect to rent an apartment in Paris again.

It seems like I am a criminal or at least immoral based on some of the comments like yours over the past three years.

So, in 2018, hopefully we will be in Pairs for our last trip to Europe in spite of comments like your.

Paris is about tourists--ASK the city fathers!!

I will be 83 and counting and I will be very happy if I make it back to Paris.

Envierges

I'm slow to understand the fuss. There will still be apartments for rent in Paris. But they will be legal rentals. More and more apartment hotels are being put on line. People like nukesafe will still be able to rent out the spare room , , , legally.

And you will be welcomed as a tourist.

I'd quibble with the remark that Paris is about tourists . . . Paris is about a lot more than that. Something like 10 percent of the population is involved in some form of the tourism industry. That means 90 percent are not.

Envierges

Error"

SB 10 percent of the working population

Sorry

iris1745

Quibble on Env, Not knowing any of the percentages, I bow to your thoughts.

fuzzbucket

Nukesafe - you operate an AirBnB in the Pacific Northwest in the US.
AirBnB has been embroiled in legal battles in Paris and other popular European cities.
That's all well and good for you, on your side of the pond, but that's not the case with AirBnB in
Paris.
AirBnB tests the limits of the law until the courts or the City make it impossible for them to do otherwise.

fuzzbucket

Wesleymarch - I find your comments very confusing...
First, you asked for hotel recommendations with specific decor and room size, as well as a budget.
Most of us were happy to offer suggestions.

Secondly, you asked for a car service. Again, people were giving suggestions.

I don't care what you do for a living - or what you do in your room. That's up to you.

Frankly, I think most of us have spent too much time feeding a troll.
Come to Paris or go where you will be "welcomed generously".

wesleymarsh

@fuzzbucket
That is the 2nd time someone has used the word troll to describe me. Perhaps that is the lowest standard anyone can expect from the internet these days. I find the behavior extremely rude and offensive. A very good reason to stop contributing to the discussion.

What does my upcoming trip to Paris have to do with my feelings on short-stay apartments? I made it very clear in my hotel thread that I was not interested in an apartment rental this time around, specifically due to the issues mentioned in this thread.

I have no idea why anyone would be "confused" about my comments here. Am I required to alter and re-shape my opinion because someone who helped me on this board holds a particular view? I have been traveling all of my adult life, and I've seen and endured many changes through the years. I'm ambivalent about some of the changes. Why would that be so difficult to understand? I hate air travel these days. Does that make me a troll? Does it stop me from traveling?

If cities are in fact suffering to provide affordable housing for their residents, and vacation rentals are the primary cause, then I can understand and accept a need for change. I'm not convinced at all that what's going on in Paris is in any way altruistic. I suspect that the majority of apartments that will be forced to sell because of these changes will be sold to wealthy people. Can't imagine how that helps anyone in the middle classes.

I've always enjoyed my visits to Paris, but I'm not in love with her. Every Parisian I know prefers to travel to Italy. I understand why.

fuzzbucket

Then perhaps, wesleymarch, you should have asked all your questions on the Italy Forum.

kerouac

According to today's paper, 2737 apartments have been registered so far in Paris.

Envierges

And registration numbers are showing in the apt. ads.

1994

I haven't seen any registration numbers showing. Have checked several agencies and see nothing different.

yestravel

Is therer a official list of apts that tourists can look at?

scdreamer

I have just looked at a popular international internet apartment rental agency - and for Paris I do not see any registration numbers.

I would love to have a legal apartment for my stay in Paris next year. I have no need to book anything right away, so I will continue to monitor the situation.

Envierges

I found the listings with registration numbers on AirBnB when I was looking for a friend.

Sarastro

<i>Is therer a official list of apts that tourists can look at?</i>

As of this December, any apartment listing or advertisement you see that does not show a city issued registration number, is certainly illegal.

Airbnb, among others, has officially stated that they will purge their listings of any apartment without the required registration number. For entities which continue to list unregistered vacation rentals, enforcement personnel will be able to locate them much quicker and issue fines much more easily. Enforcement has already stepped up dramatically this year and the courts have been much more aggressive at fining violators.

Using only vacation apartments with the required registration number should allow visitors the assurance of knowing that their travel plans will not be disrupted by the sudden disappearance of their anticipated lodgings.

fuzzbucket

The idea is to have property owners be responsible for their tax revenue, and more fully, to report it honestly.
A tenant with a year-long lease cannot sub-lease without advance notice from the owner.

The number of rental apartments is erroneous. It's not 20,000 - it's more than 100,000.

If you do not see the registration number by January 2018, it's an illegal apartment. It's just that simple.

I don't know what any agencies - including AirBnB - will do about it.
I suppose agencies can list property, if they include the registration number.

fuzzbucket

There is no website or list that people can use, including the Tourist Office's paid advertising.

iris1745

Well, we know the hotel industry has been the main cog in fighting these apartment rentals.

Hopefully the new registration system will help to solve many/all of the issues.

After all, 6/7 new luxury hotels in Paris will soon be available to tourists.

Don't we all use luxury hotels? lol

AJPeabody

I would like to know what would prevent the following scenario: An apartment is listed. There is a registration number. I reserve it. It turns out that the person who listed the apartment made up or copied another apartment's registration number so the ad appears to be legal on its face but is in fact not legal.

Sarastro

Let´s give the process a chance to work before we attempt to invent ways around it. I should think that wholesale fraud would expose violators to even higher penalties and put their real estate investments at even greater risk. So far, penalties of 50,000€ per violation have been a strong deterrent as many owners have either sold their investment apartments or turned them back into long term rentals.

Airbnb for example has a very sophisticated operating platform. They have said they will not represent properties which do not have registration numbers. It really would not be difficult for them to crosscheck the owner´s name/address of their listing with information from the city´s <i>taxe de habitation</i> rolls from which the registration numbers are issued. Airbnb will know immediately when someone attempts to use a number already in their system.

It seems that fraud could be more likely at small rental agencies unless they confirm the validity of registration numbers they are given with the city.

It´s really in everyone´s interest that this system works well. Violators have a lot of money at risk, at least the value of their properties, if they are caught.