Traveling around the elections?
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:31 AM
#21
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What gives? I started an identical thread a couple weeks ago and it was pulled before you could say Bob's your uncle.
Bottom line is I think things will go usual. Still, I traveled in Europe right when the war began and, honestly, I got some cold shoulders when people heard my accent. So be prepared.
The bloodbath in Iraq is a serious matter and the Europeans did not agree with going in there (except the Brits, and I think that was only Blair, not the people.)
However, it is certainly not the only atrocity going on in the world today.
I disagree with Tallulah, it is not arrongance and insular tendencies but just that people feel so stongly about this war they may not want the President who started this war to be re-elected and may not take to kindly to US citizens.
I also felt queasy about traveling in Europe during Vietnam, but when I met people I just got into discussions and agreed with them that it was a travesty.
Bottom line is I think things will go usual. Still, I traveled in Europe right when the war began and, honestly, I got some cold shoulders when people heard my accent. So be prepared.
The bloodbath in Iraq is a serious matter and the Europeans did not agree with going in there (except the Brits, and I think that was only Blair, not the people.)
However, it is certainly not the only atrocity going on in the world today.
I disagree with Tallulah, it is not arrongance and insular tendencies but just that people feel so stongly about this war they may not want the President who started this war to be re-elected and may not take to kindly to US citizens.
I also felt queasy about traveling in Europe during Vietnam, but when I met people I just got into discussions and agreed with them that it was a travesty.
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:42 AM
#22
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well people, if you look at the poles and the recent electoral charts it looks like Kerry will be the one looking for something to do. Bush will be busy for another 4 years.
If you look at the way America votes most Bush support comes from the heartleand and should the terrorists try to effect the election, I heard that it could make Bush even stronger in the poles since middle America will respond with stronger votes.
The big states and big liberal cities may all be behind Bush but they are actually the minority if that all Kerry gets.
If you look at the way America votes most Bush support comes from the heartleand and should the terrorists try to effect the election, I heard that it could make Bush even stronger in the poles since middle America will respond with stronger votes.
The big states and big liberal cities may all be behind Bush but they are actually the minority if that all Kerry gets.
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:44 AM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those who are sure Kerry will win, read this...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...electoral.map/
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...electoral.map/
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:51 AM
#24
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Smiley
Your question re anti_Americanism crops up on this board with monotonous regularity.
The overwhelming vast majority of American respondees on this thread say that it is not an issue in anyway whatsoever.
I'm sure if you search for "anti-american" in the search bar above you'll find dozens of threads which bear this out with plenty of personal testimonials from your fellow countrymen and women.
I guess you have to decide whether the Fodors posters are anymore or less believable than those on the Washington Post board you read.
Dr D.
Your question re anti_Americanism crops up on this board with monotonous regularity.
The overwhelming vast majority of American respondees on this thread say that it is not an issue in anyway whatsoever.
I'm sure if you search for "anti-american" in the search bar above you'll find dozens of threads which bear this out with plenty of personal testimonials from your fellow countrymen and women.
I guess you have to decide whether the Fodors posters are anymore or less believable than those on the Washington Post board you read.
Dr D.
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:57 AM
#25
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dr: Yes I think Bush will win.The democrats had a golden opportunity to beat him but they blew it by picking Kerry.The most liberal,do nothing member of the senate.Many Americans who don't like Bush can't vote for Kerry and still sleep at night.
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:14 AM
#26
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you will get a lot of adverse comments about the election: whether that worries you or not depends on how hypersensitive you are.
I think you'll get it whoever wins (and anyone who thinks that's a foregone conclusion is too ignorant of politics to be trusted with a vote). richardab's post explains why.
The gulf between the popular vote, as shown in opinion polls, and the Electoral College vote on the CNN site is huge. Add to that the scandal of voting machines that don't work, and of loud-mouth, politically inept, voting machine magnates promising to "deliver Ohio to Bush). Stir in the damage Nader's going to do to Kerry.
And you've got an immense likelihood that the result is going to be as devoid of credibility as it was last time. With all the consequential fallout of stories about disenfranchisement, and redistricting and the rest. And rehashed stories of Illinois voiting machines under Mayor Daley being found in Lake Michigan. The repulsive Michael Moore is sowing the seeds for all those stories right now.
And that's what the rest of the world will notice, and rub your noses in.
There is an enormous risk America will be shown up as a country incapable of achieving the democracy it sends its youngest and poorest to die to impose on others.
I doubt that whoever wins really matters that much (what, exactly, would Kerry do differently?). I pray that whoever it is, he wins convincingly.
But I don't believe it for a second.
I think you'll get it whoever wins (and anyone who thinks that's a foregone conclusion is too ignorant of politics to be trusted with a vote). richardab's post explains why.
The gulf between the popular vote, as shown in opinion polls, and the Electoral College vote on the CNN site is huge. Add to that the scandal of voting machines that don't work, and of loud-mouth, politically inept, voting machine magnates promising to "deliver Ohio to Bush). Stir in the damage Nader's going to do to Kerry.
And you've got an immense likelihood that the result is going to be as devoid of credibility as it was last time. With all the consequential fallout of stories about disenfranchisement, and redistricting and the rest. And rehashed stories of Illinois voiting machines under Mayor Daley being found in Lake Michigan. The repulsive Michael Moore is sowing the seeds for all those stories right now.
And that's what the rest of the world will notice, and rub your noses in.
There is an enormous risk America will be shown up as a country incapable of achieving the democracy it sends its youngest and poorest to die to impose on others.
I doubt that whoever wins really matters that much (what, exactly, would Kerry do differently?). I pray that whoever it is, he wins convincingly.
But I don't believe it for a second.
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:36 AM
#30
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm American but have European relatives and close friends (who live here now, but also I visit with Europeans traveling here) and I attend some local events with Europeans. I find some of the above comments from Europeans rather surprising and only reflective of themselves. Every European I know cares about the US elections and is very interested in the results and American politics, and is quite verbal and opinionated on the subject. My German friends and acquaintances, in particular, do indeed think "americans" (meaning US electorate) are insane for electing Bush. They do not tend to be quiet or shy in their views, though, on lots of things. I've read recent articles on the US election in the foreign press as well as some articles in the US press about those watching the debates in Europe and their opinions, and they certainly do care a lot about who is US President because it affects the world.
However, what I don't think pertains is that European residents really care what tourists do or think that much nor are they going to be socializing with them are conversing with them about serious subjects. If you don't speak their language, really not much. NOw there are rare, limited exceptions to that, of course -- and I might add despite some of the above posts which I think are from UK citizens, that is where people I didn't know initiated comments about the US President to me completely unsolicited and off-topic. I remember some guy in a shop in London immediately launching into his opinions on this topic when I was just buying something from him, once he found out I was American.
I am interested in politics more than many people, and do read items from the foreign press weekly, and I follow some foreign political events, but I certainly have no interest in stopping and talking to tourists on this topic in my city where I live and work. I try to avoid tourists, to be honest, where I live.
However, what I don't think pertains is that European residents really care what tourists do or think that much nor are they going to be socializing with them are conversing with them about serious subjects. If you don't speak their language, really not much. NOw there are rare, limited exceptions to that, of course -- and I might add despite some of the above posts which I think are from UK citizens, that is where people I didn't know initiated comments about the US President to me completely unsolicited and off-topic. I remember some guy in a shop in London immediately launching into his opinions on this topic when I was just buying something from him, once he found out I was American.
I am interested in politics more than many people, and do read items from the foreign press weekly, and I follow some foreign political events, but I certainly have no interest in stopping and talking to tourists on this topic in my city where I live and work. I try to avoid tourists, to be honest, where I live.
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:38 AM
#31
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People claiming you'll get a lot of adverse comments don't have a clue.Unless you start a political conversation it is unlikely the election will even come up.As far as knowing who will win,I never claimed to.I base my best guess on the way the electoral map is shaping up.
Oct 6th, 2004, 09:03 AM
#32
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mgmargate raises an important point that's obvious when you think about it, but is getting lost here.
A normal tourist, on planes, in hotels and on guided tours of the Louvre or the Sistine Chapel will encounter little more than the smile of someone who wants to get paid.
But an American getting into a proper conversation in a decent pub, or with old college friends, or with colleagues in the London office may well find it hard to avoid politics for long. And there really are very few Europeans - I'm almost the only one I know - with any time for Bush.
A normal tourist, on planes, in hotels and on guided tours of the Louvre or the Sistine Chapel will encounter little more than the smile of someone who wants to get paid.
But an American getting into a proper conversation in a decent pub, or with old college friends, or with colleagues in the London office may well find it hard to avoid politics for long. And there really are very few Europeans - I'm almost the only one I know - with any time for Bush.
Oct 6th, 2004, 10:14 AM
#33
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
