If I could add another, slightly different slant here: it's not just that drummer's husband doesn't want to travel, it's that he sucks the fun out of planning and anticipating, which is -- I'm sure we all agree -- part of what's great about traveling.

I agree with cigalechanta and everyone after her who advised drummer just to go by herself. I had a sort of stick-in-the-mud husband at first, too, whose attitude was always "will I like it? I bet I won't. I don't want to do that." I woke up one morning and said, pfooey, I'll go without ya! I refused to discuss it further, just found a friend and went. He began to decide that he couldn't "let me" go alone (and have all that fun?) and maybe he'd come too. But he was still grumpy about it, and I tried to move heaven and earth to make it appeal to him. Until I woke up one morning and said, phooey, either get with the program or don't come.

Sometimes I wish he'd take on the responsibility of all the planning, and my idea of heaven would be if he'd surprise me with a trip planned as carefully for me as I do for the two of us. But that ain't gonna happen -- and I'm happy that we have become a travelin' couple. He brags now about the places we've been, too, and I think part of that is that we have a lot of travelers now among our friends, so maybe he's risen to the friendly competition about having been to interesting places.

But drummer, in addition to convincing YOURSELF that couples don't have to travel together and that you can go by yourself, I know that you also need to get him to recognize that his attitude, whether he comes with you or not, is really corrosive to your good feelings about him. Perhaps it's a matter of counseling, perhaps it's a matter of being around people who value travel more than an in-state golfing vacation, perhaps it's a matter of have people like us tell you to "go for it, girl."

But don't let him drag down your enthusiasm. From the perspective of having been there myself, I'd say he can go cheerfully with you and enjoy himself, or stay home and keep his mouth shut.

Like others, Mrs. 0002, I worry that you are being a bit of a wimp on this one, and you might also be romanticizing how marriage is supposed to go in a way that DH isn't. Sharing finances, etc. etc. is fine if you share priorities, but clearly you don't. And your priority seems to be to make DH happy, compromise, share, and he seems to want to do it his way, period, with pronouncements like "waste of money" and "couples don't travel separately" to head off any possible compromise. All the whining or cajoling or compromising in the world won't improve that, might make it worse in fact.

I'd get clear and calm about what you want before you sit him down to get the whole issue off "dead" center. Point out to yourself as well as DH what you threw away in parentheses: "it's like a hobby to me," from planning to going -- and as you said, it's really more than a hobby, it's a life-long dream. DH doesn't get that and he needs to, whatever it takes.

Like you, I have a husband that doesn't care to travel outside his set parameters. Unlike you, he does support my desire to travel. We did honeymoon in Ireland, and he did enjoy it - sort of - but doesn't care to repeat the experience. He just doesn't want to travel abroad. We do compromise in that I will gladly drive down to Baja and camp in the sand so that he can fish, and will gladly do a road trip with him. But your dilemma is that your husband is insistent that you must both travel together - for all vacations. And for me, there's the rub. What could be worse than to be stuck on vacation with someone who is constantly complaining and whining, or grumpy and grumbly. God, take me now! I feel for you, I really do. One of the things I've gotten really good at is bargain travel. Like the suggested trip to Ireland for golf. What a great idea! Ireland is one of my favorite destinations, it's kind of a 'man's country' (I'm gonna get letters!), and it can be economical, if not cheap. Perhaps you can plan other trips with budget in mind, where you will be able to indulge your love of travel to foreign climes and STILL be able to afford some of those little luxuries to which your hub seems so addicted. Like the home exchange idea someone on the thread suggested...Anyway, I wish you every kind of good luck...

drummer0002, I think you did a great job of describing this issue in your original post: you have different priorities. You are into "experiences" and your husband is into "things". I know a lot of people like that; maybe most people I know. They see a trip as a week's splurge. I see it as another important and permanent contribution to my view of life and the world. A lot of things wear out, go out of style or need to be replaced. Experiences become part of who I am.

Unless you have great resources to work with, this would be difficult enough, but his belief that "couples should not go on vacations separately" is sort of a 'be reasonable; do it MY way' kind of position.

Marriage is partnership, not ownership. This is an important issue in your life and you have a lot of it ahead of you. I know plenty of people who are living with their personal jailers because they did not assert some personal sovereignty early on and over time, they built their own monsters through constant accommodation. Reaching a reasonable compromise that allows you to flourish and achieve your aspirations will be nourishing for both of you in the long run.

Don't bury this one and hope that things will change in the future on their own. You deserve to reach your ambitions and your partner will be at his best when he learns how important it is to help you do that. Good luck!

oh I just love these dear abby posts...

Actually, I don't think drummer has good priorities either, both of them sound somewhat fiscally irreponsible and immature. I am much older than 30 and do have a good, pretty well0-paying job, and it wouldn't enter my head that I am scrimping and sacrificing because I choose not to buy expensive clothes and purses or subscribe to premium cable. I don't buy them because I don't want them and I don't have premium cable because you don't need all those channels and I'm not interested in sitting around watching cable that much. I don't know of hardly any 26 year old with that good of a job who should be spending money like this or have these priorities. The European vacation isn't staying in 2* hotels and spending modestly, it's a Mediterrean cruise. Kind of an odd choice for a 26 year old who is concerned about money and arguments on the expense. If one really needs to scrimp all year for a European vacation, I think they may be overextending themselves or they don't have that good a job as claimed, as you can travel fairly cheaply if you want. The idea that one has to try to get pregnant on a trip is another immature fantasy that has no purpose.

It's rather coincidental, but since this post this issue has been popping up all over the place -- I've seen some article in the paper and then yesterday, they had a story just like this on the radio on NPR's This American Life. Now that was really a good story -- about a husband who was an ex-cop who wouldn't let his wife go anywhere because he was afraid of crime, but he also had no interest in going anywhere outside their house on vacation, not even Daytona. As he put it, he hated everything people take vacations for -- he hated eating out, hated hotels, hated beaches, etc. They should have that story online to listen to for free, I'd recommend it. It was an interesting ending after she did go to Mexico with a friend without him.

Christina, I heard that "This American Life" story and it fascinated me because the couple seemed to fit an old stereotype but in a slightly updated way, wherein Wifey manages to manipulate Silly Old Poop into noticing he misses her, and then she happily goes back to preparing his snacks and drink just the way he likes to have them served. Reminded me of the last line of Pygmalion/My Fair Lady: "Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?"

drummer0002
What about traveling with a girlfriend. My husband loves to travel but every other year I take a trip with a friend or sometimes my sister. My husbands only worry is that I'll spend too much money shopping.

Yes Christina I found that very odd too, about trying to start a family on the next trip. If the difference in goals and philosophies (not just travel goals, but also finances and even the very nature of a marriage) is so vast between this couple that drummer is looking for advice from total strangers, then they shouldn't be thinking about having children at all, let alone indulging in some romantic unrealistic fantasy about conception on a trip being more special than a regular conception.
Kind of like a couple of my girlfriends - who spent enormous amounts of money on fancy weddings to guys that they knew in their hearts were not right for them. I get so frustrated at young women who are so focussed on these romantic fantasies that they can't see things in a realistic light. It's the MARRIAGE, the PARTNERSHIP that's important, not the one day of the wedding and the most expensive dress and fanciest hotel. It's the FAMILY, the life of the CHILD, that's important, not the moment of conception taking place in some exotic location.

I think secure husbands have no problems with their wives either traveling alone or with a friend. My best friend and I usually meet for a yearly trip, sometimes big, sometimes small, and her husband has no problem. Their marriage is secure and he has no fear that she is traveling to get away from him or to meet someone else. They also take trips just the two of them and as a family with their daughter. On the other hand, my parents who have been married for 54 years don't like to go anywhere without the other, but that is their choice and neither one dare to rain on the other's parade and they compromise all the time, maybe that's why they've been happily married for 54 years?

Hi drummer
I read all of this thread (so far) and was elated to see all the great suggestions. While they were all good, may I suggest you go back and read Clifton and Flyboy again. I think they pretty much put the finger on it.
I have spent years in an office dealing with this kind of stuff, and I can say with a relative degree of certainty that this has nothing to do with travel -- it is only the symptom. There is a reall good chance that flyboy is correct in the value differences between things and experiences. We surely cant go into that here -- but something is there. I have a feeling that if you do an inventory of this kind of thing in your marriage, you will probably find other examples of "shoulds" which translate into 'my way or the highway' type of thinking on his part. I shudder to think how many shoulds he has concerning kids. At any rate, if you compromise away your desire to travel in favor of the beach, you will begin to resent it a great deal and eventually this and other one-sided 'compromises" will land both of you into counseling -- usually after its too late.
I dont intend to be a prophet of doom here, but I have unfortunately seen it happen a lot. You both seem to genuinely care about each other. So plan your next trip, grab your Aunt and have fun. Whatever the real issue with him is will come to light.
Shrink

Although this is not a marriage counseling board, I think drummer has gotten some great advise that I hope she will consider. The problem is clearly a much larger issue than to travel or not to travel.

drummer0002, you have got loads of fantastic posts, but I have one really important question-
What is your husband ACTUALLY afraid of?
He seems to be quite happy taking holidays in local environments.
The minute overseas travel is mentioned, he seems to retreat into the "couples should go together or shouldn't go at all" routine.
It's a real indication that he fears a lack of control. He knows HIS environment- but going elsewhere is scary.
So therefore,since he considers himself as your protector, YOU shouldn't go anywhere that falls into the "scary" scenario either.
Personally- I reckon he has a lot of growing up to do. If you want to go somewhere- then just go. Hubby will have to learn to deal with it, but I reckon it won't take him a whole lot of time.
If your hubby is actually going to travel with you-he firstly has to deal with his own pre-conceptions and misguided fears.

This is the one time when I wish I were a counselor since there are always TWO sides to every story and I would love to hear the "other" side of this one before offering much advice.

However, I was saddened to see a very earlier on post that advised you to "threaten" divorce, or some such, to get what you want...if there were ever a "wrong" way to deal with a relationship problem it is that one IMO and unfortunately I think it is all too common a practice.

Good luck. I guess this is one more reason I always tell my friends who are thinking of cementing a relationship to "travel with them first and then decide..."

http://www.golfinfrance.f9.co.uk/

So? Maybe there is another couple and the "he" of the other couple golfs and "she" does not. The boys go off doing this...and you and she see Paris and meet up at the CDG at the appointed day to leave!

Ireland, Scotland, England, Spain, Portjugal, Asia, (and I have no idea if Italians golf! mmm... I'm off to check!)

Yes, this is a travel forum so we all side with drummer as she wants to travel. I suspect the husband has his side to the story that could be equally convincing.

But we will never know, it seems like drummer has jumped ship anyway.

Well.... I MIGHT side with the husband if I heard his side of the story...
As noted a few posts back by Christina, drummer's planning a Mediterranean cruise, which seems quite an extravagant trip for a 26-year-old. She also plans to try to conceive a baby on their next trip. Why does a baby have to be conceived on a trip? You either want one or you don't, and if you do you shouldn't care where it's conceived as long as it's conceived in love. Seems like she has romantic fantasies that perhaps are out of touch with reality.

Drummer0002 - I'm concerned for your marriage and see definite red flags going up. I won't repeat what others have said. I agree wholeheartedly with Flyboy, Christina and Shrink.

I'd suggest you postpone thoughts of children until you resolve the control issue. A child will only complicate your life futher.

To quote you from earlier in this post, "My husband gives me a hard time before and during the trip, but once we get home he brags to everyone about how much fun he had and the trip was worth it. He even reminisces with me once in a while about how great it was when we were here or there." Discuss this behaviour with your husband and explain to him how it makes you feel. If he cares for you he will stop. He is being childish, controlling and mean. Yes, you get your trip with him, but at what (emotional) pricetag? You are being trampled all over! How can you possibly enjoy a trip (or life) with someone who treats you this way?

Ira and others have offered true compromise positions. Life... especially marriage, is give and take.

NYCFoodSnob offers a bleak and sad alternative. Other people's life experiences are good teachers and can save you a lot of pain.

Please, please work this issue out before you bring a child into your life!

Good marriages allow each partner to follow their passions and dreams.

- Sharon

This is a fair question since it pertains to how travel decisions should be made when more than one person is involved. It needn't be restricted to married couples.

drummer0002, you're lucky to be starting out married life in the era of the Internet. I sure would have liked to have a cfc or a flyboy give me such good advice at 26.

Domineering people always have reasons for why they dominate, often along the lines of "God made me do it." Oddly enough, God never suggests they acquire the patience and yes, the humility to listen to other people or acquiesce to other people's reasonings or, for that matter, to what God might have told other people.

It took me 20 years to learn how to say when my loving, but righteous friends and/or husband read forth a decree from the Mount of Olives, along the lines of "married couples shouldn't take separate vacations" (and we will now sing Hymn 456...):

"Before we decide whether separate vacations is the best way to solve this dilemma, tell me why you think one half of the couple sets the rules for couple behaviour. Maybe rules, even more than vacations, should be made together."

Good luck!

<i>&quot;NYCFoodSnob offers a bleak and sad alternative.&quot;</i>

Well, that's the funny thing about love. One person's sad and bleak is another's bliss.

Even though my mother had always wanted to see the world, she loved her husband so much she wasn't really interested in seeing it without him, until she turned 60. She certainly didn't regret any of her compromise prior to turning 60.

People make choices and compromises all the time, in the name of love, and they don't look back with regret. They just do what they do until they decide a little change is good.

I'm afraid my own personal feelings about my mother's sacrifice influenced my voice in what I initially wrote here. My mother wasn't sad and didn't view her choices as bleak. In fact, if she had to do it all over again, I have no doubt she wouldn't change a thing.

I'm the one with the independent spirit and the refusal to compromise. That's why my first marriage to my first love ended. He was terribly insecure and had the need to control me to keep me. He wanted me to always be there for him. (He was so controlling and selfish he dumped me in Venice, for goodness sakes, with half a trip to finish.)

Years of therapy made me realize I don't want to marry my father or emulate my mother's love. I found out I can't allow myself to fall in love with insecure, controlling men, no matter how sensitive they appear to be or how cute.

My last husband was the best. He adored my talent and my success and never stood in my way from achieving any dream or goal I wanted to pursue. And I gave him the same freedom and support in return. He also loved France and Italy. It's just too bad his life didn't last longer. I miss him so (and haven't met anyone, yet, who comes close).

NYCFoodSnob... there is a world of difference between compromise and resentment.