willit

Gordon - I am genuinely surprised that some people take it as an insult. I routinely meet up with a group of football supporters, at least 5 of whom are scots, and frequently refer to themselves as "jocks".

To use your own example, I doubt you'd fare any better walking therough my hometown late on Saturday night and using some to the terms of endearment I've received from Scots.

jtpj777

Farrermog,

I was delighted NZ won; as I have said by far the best team won the WC. I suspect your reference to, "umbrage" says more about your attitude to sport than mine!

PS Do you really think posting a link to an Australian newspaper defending Joubert has any real credence in this?

I would like to have seen that newspaper article (and Australian supporters reaction) if it had been the other way about ie Australia had been knocked out of the WC by a last minute dodgy Scottish penalty?! (and don't get me started on the obvious late tackle on Stuart Hogg one minute before the penalty that should have resulted in a Scottish penalty, if not yellow card, for the Australian player!).

In all honesty, it is not the result I find annoying it is your lack of graciousness in attacking the Scottish Team and supporters.

You will be pleased to know that is my last word on this!

raincitygirl

ann, there is NO way I am mentioning the Ashes…my birthday is coming up and I'd still like to get presents and my party. lol
As for his Scottish friend, nope, he wouldn't be hanging around on a travel site. He is a lovely guy by the way, one of the very best.

bilboburgler

It is a pity that such a brave Division as the 9th (Scottish) in WW1 should now be considered a rude word for Scotsmen.

Stuff changes but as someone with at least two uncles were very proud to be called "Jock" it just seems a shame.

colduphere

In North America jocks are critical pieces of sports equipment. They are entrusted with society's future. Could there be a higher honour?

But since we are not talking North America here is the answer:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8094716.stm

jtpj777

Bilboburgler,

Don't get me wrong, in the right context, "Jock" might be an acceptable way to address a relative or close friend but please be aware it needs to be used carefully, not indiscriminately as it can have a connotation of being demeaning.

I think the link provided by colduphere gets in about right.

annhig

Ann the goal should be Dan having a picture of you on his wall. I'm not sure how many years ago that would be.>>

How gallant, cold.

as for the sensibilities of those hailing from "north of the border" I agree that this does sum it up:

<<The use of Jock can easily be affectionate and, when it comes down to it, the ability to laugh at yourself is healthy >>

amen to that.

To get back to the subject of the thread, [or sort of] just watching England v NZ RL now - I half expected to see Sonny Bill turning out for NZ but perhaps he is a little tired after yesterday. For the first 20 mins or so it looked as if we were going to be mullered but we finally turned up and at half time, it's 12 -12.

nelsonian

NZ beating France in the quarter-final by such a margin, has only just laid to rest, the 2007 result when we lost against France in the last minute or so, the result of a bad referring decision. ( I think the ref was Wayne Barnes!). These things happen, you move on, even if it does take 8 years or so to get the right result.

hetismij2

we are also watching the match Ann. it was that or C ountryfiles big walk or whatever it was called.

Secretly DH prefers RL to RU, but then he is a northerner .

annhig

( I think the ref was Wayne Barnes!). These things happen, you move on, even if it does take 8 years or so to get the right result.>>

no maligning of my learned friend Mr Barnes please, nelsonian. but I do admire your having moved on - we have barely moved on from 2007, though we did particularly enjoy the Japan v SA match.

Hets, my DH likes RL too - he went to Uni in Salford and got a taste for it there. Me I just enjoy watch men in shorts chasing a ball around a muddy field!

annhig

Great. We beat the B.....s. [inset winking emoticon] 26 v 12.

No insult intended, Nelsonian!

farrermog

I played union at my bog - apologies in advance - standard state school and league on weekends (my Scots grandfather and my uncle, both of whom were merchant mariners and called the J word by their shipmates but not by their family - the latter wouldn't have appreciated being called Wee J - played neither. My grandfather btw was generally disparaging of Australians, but after his merchantman outran a Japanese submarine offered that we did manage to put together a decent tub).

Anyway, I preferred union to league mainly because the scrambling and stacks-on stuff and the free-ranging remit of my main position, breakaway, was easier going and a lot more enjoyable than the more brutal, exposed, league. However, the big advantage of playing league was that to survive you had to learn to tackle and that was a distinct advantage in union in those days. At the risk of creating further upset, some of us were of the view that a problem with Australian union teams was there were too many private schoolboy types and not enough mongrel (apologies to all the other mongrels out there), as there was, and is, in league.

But back to the main event - NZ has underachieved at Rugby World Cups and Australia has overachieved (look at the stats between the countries) so it was a result which goes part of the way to letting the world know just how consistently superior NZ rugby has been and rewarding all the painful pleasure it has given the rest of us over the years.

nelsonian

ann, have no interest in league at all. They get beaten consistently!!!

sheila

It's a shame this thread has got so niggly at the end. An insult is in the ear of the behearer. My mother, who had not a prejudiced bone in her body, called travelling people, tinks- short for tinkers. It was merely descriptive. Imagine my horror to arrive in Aberdeen 40 years ago to discover that here they used the word as a pretty bad insult. I don't use it any more. She also called black people (of whom there may have been 10 in our town of 50,000 people, "darkies". Again, no ill will. I wouldn't DREAM of using that today.

I can call myself a Jock if I want, but you may not. I don't use the expression "guffs". Frankly, it's just respect; or, if you like, simple good manners.

I loved the whole tournament. Would I have put our better players out to get hurt by the Boks, when we were likely to lose anyway? Not a chance. This is a professional team, and I think we came through the tournament with pride and our heads held high.

Bring on the 6 Nations

annhig

Your team certainly did acquit itself well, Sheila, and showed that its decline over the last few years was a mere blip. I venture to suggest that the malaise in English Rugby goes somewhat deeper with the "old farts" still well in control and resting on their respective laurels.

And the tournament as a whole has been a resounding success - no complaints about empty seats, poor access or any of the problems which so often beset large tournaments. Organising committees so often get brickbats in such cases - this lot deserve a medal! [perhaps Sonny Bill has got a spare one - on radio this morning they said that he's been given a replacement!]

Bring on the 6 Nations indeed - have you seen what the first match is????

annhig

[actually not THE first match, but certainly the one that matter most to us]

Geordie

I think England has a good team, but they made too many basic handling mistakes. The difference between northern and southern hemispheres is being overblown, there were a lot of very close matches which could have gone either way.

The aussies did better than expected I think due to the fact they finally got their front row sorted out, for the last few years they have had a pretty poor scrum

It'll be interesting to see how nz do in the next few years with all the expected retirements

annhig

Good point Geordie about how NZ will manage with impending retirements - my prediction is that mid cycle, perhaps when the Lions are visiting, [well, I can dream can't I?] they may have a bit of a slump but by the time of the next world cup, they will be back to firing on all cylinders.

The Aussies did amazingly well to turn themselves round in 12 months or so - typical that they should do so though, and be ruthless in doing it. As for England's woes, I think more and more that it was about selection - there are any number of excellent players who missed out, some whom were playing brilliantly for their club teams yesterday - Tom Waldron, Billy Twelvetrees, Tom Croft - they could all have done a great job for England, given the chance.

nelsonian

NZ has a lot of depth in the ranks. Joe Moody who was the replacement flown in half way through the tournament wasn't in the initial selection, and played every match from the quarter-final, even though there was another guy who could play his position in the squad.

northie

Pleased that Michael Cheika was named coach of the year . He has certainly brought the Australiuan team out of the doldrums . Lots equate him to Ange Postecoglou who is the coach of the socceroos - Australian football(soccer) team.
annhig - our test starts in Brisbane tomorrow against the Black Caps (NZ . )