I think for me tomassocroccante hit it on the head.

I've been to Rome 3 times. Twice in Late September and early October when the weather was pleasant and the crowded seemed more manageable. We loved Rome!!

Last May we ended our trip in Rome arriving midday. It was a very hot Friday and the city was packed with tourists. You could hardly get near the Pantheon or Trevi Fountain. We should have picked a few things to do but made the mistake of trying to see it all.

We walked through the Roman Forum up to the Campidoglio. Walked from there to the Pantheon...over to Piazza Navona...to Campo dei Fiori...to the Trevi Fountain....to the Villa Borghese. We toured the gallery for a little less than 2 hours. Walked through the park and over to the Piazza de Popolo...up to the Spanish Steps and back down toward the Piazza del Rotunda.
8 hours on our feet.

There was quite a bit of scaffolding around the city. My husband and I both commented that we were glad it wasn't our first trip or we would have been disappointed. The locals did seem a little cranky but then again so were we.

It was a big mistake on our part to take on too much. We choose to remember fondly our first two trips to Rome and chaulk up the last trip to experience....what not to do. I still love Rome!!

I truly love Rome, and honestly never witnessed any of the things that you mentioned. I didn't see any Italians that were so unhappy, although admittingly I didn't take a vote. I think that if you visit Rome in off-season, when its not so crowded and hot, you would have an entirely different viewpoint.

Tracy

That reminds me of a friend of DH's who returned from a honeymoon in Rome. His comment? "Boring. There's nothing to see except old buildings".

I'm still trying to work out just what he was expecting to see there!

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time in Rome. My BF and I went for our first visit at the end of May and into early June this year. We loved it. Yes, it was crowded and there was plenty of graffiti but I expected that.
We stayed in Trastevere, enjoyed the little restaurants, etc. We had the jaw dropping experiences in the Colosseum, the Sistine Chapel (despite the zillions of people), St. Peter's, the Scavi tour, etc. I keep a street map of the city near my PC at home just because I enjoy feeling nostalgic about it.
I've been to a few other European cities and have enjoyed them a lot, too. Guess I'm a city person so that may make a difference.

Hope your next destination is more enjoyable for you.

LeeParis (yes...I love Paris, too...)

My first trip to Rome was a disappointment too, but I was pickpocketed on my first full day and I'm sure that colored my perceptions. I did not enjoy my second trip because of the tension of thoughts of my first and feeling that I had to always be on guard. We saw plenty of pickpockets that trip. Although I had given up on the city and did not intend to return, I went back once again with my son because he really wanted to go there and I loved it. What I love about Rome is that you can walk down the most mundane street, turn the corner and there is something wonderful. It happens over and over again. since then, it has been a place to return to.

indylady - Thank you for your candid opinion. Some participants in this forum apparently feel that negative opinions of Europe should be kept to ones self.

If you don't enjoy Paris, Amsterdam or Rome, it's because you are a "bad tourist." You don't have the right attitude. Anyone that finds even a minor shortcoming or is in the least bit disappointed by Europe is obviously an ugly American. You were probably angry at the entire nation (if not the entire continent) because you couldn't find a Dairy Queen with free refills.

We are planning to visit Rome for the first time next Spring. The sincere responses to your post, both positive and negative, have been useful.

Ignore the travel snobs and those who regard disagreement as an affront to their authority. The rest of us would like to learn more about your experiences in Rome.

Amen, smueller! If we all loved the same cities, they would be even more crowded than they are now. I admit that it's difficult to hear when someone disliked a city (or movie, or restaurant) that you love. I was talking to another mom in the waiting room at my daugher's dance studio. She and her husband had been to Paris and just hated it; she said they left as soon as they could. They went on to Germany and just loved it. I just bit my tongue and listened. What good would it have done for me to have told her that they SHOULD have loved Paris as much as I do?

I made an observation that Rome was "dirty", but wonderful otherwise. In regards to graffiti, it seemed to me that there was far more graffiti in Paris than in Rome...and I enjoyed Rome more than Paris.
I used to think that we in the Midwest of the U.S. were "clean" and relatively litter-free. Unfortunately, that's no longer true. Apparently fast food packaging just gets chucked out the window. Sad. But Rome was wonderful, and I didn't sense any general unhappiness.

Bill

>>If you don't enjoy Paris, Amsterdam or Rome, it's because you are a "bad tourist." You don't have the right attitude<<

No, I don't think that's what most people said...I spent only 2 days in Rome, and I am rather neutral about it...However, when someone makes a statement like " The graffiti was on just about every square foot of the city" it has to be taken with some doubt...the entire city is full of graffiti?

"And the Italians are so unhappy, it is so sad there" Another statement like this is what makes some fodorite look at a poster with some doubt.... if she had said, so many Italians I met seemed unhappy, and I felt sad there....maybe it would have made more sense.

I understand that not everyone knows how to express themselves properly but general statments as the OP made is what makes me wonder what the OP's attitude was while traveling.

I wasn't a fan of Florence, but I can't even tell you why, I think I was tired and hot and wasn't in the right frame of mind. And then we all connect with some cities more than the others.

Also a perfect example of people not exploring a place and saying it was awful is the island of Oahu...I've heard people say, I don't like Oahu, it's just one big concrete city. That always makes me laugh because that says to me they didn't leave Waikiki/Honolulu, never went anywhere else on the island which is very lush and mostly unpopulated.

Oh, well....as someone else said, lucky we don't all like the same cities. I'm starting to be thrilled if/when I hear people saying they didn't like Venice...yeah, less of a crowd for my next visit!

We all like to fancy ourselves hardy, prepared travelers, but I do think that heat and crowds can sap the fun and charm from about every location. Being a tourist, with limited vacation time and financial resources, is hard work. I live in Texas and the summer heat doesn't bother me at all. The one thing I DON'T do at home is go for long walks out in the heat in the middle of the day. But if I'm a tourist in a hot location, there I am, trouping out in the sun to see the next sight.

We came to love the "forced" siesta time in Barcelona. At first we were confounded....we'd arrive to shop on a charming little street, and every single store would be closed. What to do? We quickly found that if we ate a leisurely lunch during that time, the rest of the day would go much better.

"Ignore the travel snobs and those who regard disagreement as an affront to their authority."

smueller, when someone states, "And the Italians are so unhappy, it is so sad there", it makes it hard to take the post very seriously. Unless she spent her entire time in the emergency room of some hospital, I find it hard to believe that all Italians are an "unhappy" lot.

I do hope Indylady elaborates on why she believes Italians are so unhappy and why it is so sad there, although I do remember an Italian woman almost coming to tears when they ran out of her favorite gelato flavor.

I'd also like to read more from Indylady and what else may have added to her unfortunate trip. Sometimes it is difficult to come onto Fodor's and give a negative report about other peoples favoured places.

Is there any one place on earth loved by every Fodorite that has visited? I somehow doubt it.

I lived in Rome of over ten year, Like the rest of the world where you find men & woman you will find garbage, But to say (stay away from Rome), I do not know where that is coming from? you would not say that about the first city in the World ,older than the once you come from, but I would not live in any city,Each day you read about city where once can not go out at night, Not Rome, So very sorry. open your eye for you must have be sleeping to have not seen Rome a city that has given so much to the world.

A friend of Rome & the Vatican

Our own surroundings and lifestyle can certainly color our response to another place.

I'm reminded of comments I've heard from friends and neighbors when I've returned from travel:

"You were in Amsterdam! Didn't you find it dirty? And the drug dealers?!!"

I live in NYC, some corners of which are spotless, many of which are ... not. And at the time of my first trip to Amsterdam, I could barely leave my house without a dealer offering me drugs. (I was in the right age demographic at that time, too.)

Back from Paris:

"Didn't you find the Parisians rude?" (Amazingly, people still ask.) I would respond, "The worst treatment I got in Paris was indifference - in NY I deal with open hostility almost every day!"

So, we New Yorkers (and you Londoners, etc) will be less troubled with certain issues (we're already so aware of potential con men and pickpockets that I sometimes think we have a tattoo on our foreheads reading, "Move on, creep.&quot Everyone will have his sensitivities and her dreads.

A friend of mine who goes wherever he likes almost as often as he wants once came back from Paris saying, "It poured rain every day, it was miserable, I don't care if I ever go back." Of course, he still goes, because he loves Paris!

I think that there are many things that can taint your feelings on a particular place. I don't really like Florence but I often wonder if that is largely based on the fact that I arrived in Florence stumbling off of an overnight train, with very little sleep, at 6:30 am. Nothing was open, the city was about dead with the exception of those heading to work I presume, and I was absolutely exhausted. We got lost trying to find our hotel, there were "creepy people" hanging around the train station, and it was just not a memorable first impression. We arrived in Rome three days later and it was like love at first sight; I loved it from the moment I arrived. Some places just "click" with us and others don't. Doesn't really make one person right or wrong.

What I don't agree with sweeping generalizations like "the Italians are so unhappy." Like I mentioned above, without actually walking around and taking a vote how would one come to this conclusion? And "graffiti on just about every square foot"? I guess I just failed to notice.

Tracy

There are some areas of Rome that are quite graffiti-ridden and look quite depressed (in the economic sense). These tend to be in the areas close to the Colosseum and San Giovanni and Termini. If someone is saving money by staying in those areas, you might get a negative impression of Rome based on that, because you don't wake up surrounded by elegance, but ugliness.

daveesl....best laugh of the day!!

Bravo Daveeee...You made me laugh!!

<And the Italians are so unhappy, it is so sad there..>

How can a person make such absurd statement after spending only few days in a foreign city?
Amazing....

Well, when indylady does come back to read the huge log of responses her original post has wrought, she will either feel beat up or amazed. She can take heart in those who agree with her, some comfort from those who "get it" but love Rome anyway and may sting a bit from others.

In fact I've read a number of articles the past few months about the rise of public drunkenness in Rome: many tourists and some young Romans, drawn by the "pub crawls" organized by so called tourism "entrepreneurs", or just the new type of bars popping up on certain squares and creating the new scene of young people drinking all night in these squares when they leave the bars. The spring break mentality, or the brit "bachelor party" scene. Also, a recently worsening grafiti problem.

If you land in the wrong neighborhood as a visitor (and you all know how hard we look for the right lodging) you could get a pretty grim impression. But we have to understand that any city can suddenly have a chronic problem rise to a really bad level = and it can take time to fix.

I have to admit, there are certain days that a visitor to my block in Manhattan would think "what a dirty street" - or worse. I think it myself.

<how dirty Rome was and how there was garbage everywhere....such deplorable conditions...>

We have been to Rome 3 times and got the same exact impression during all 3 visits. We kept coming back thinking that we missed the nice beautiful part of Rome. We stayed at the Spanish steps area, Via Veneto & then Pantheon area. It's really not where we stayed but Rome in general is just DIRTY & MESSY (which may well be part of the charm).

The unbearable part is the horrible TRAFFIC noise and fume (no charm in that). Speaking generally Rome feels dirtier than Paris, London, Berlin and other premiere Western European capitals.

I agree with another poster, Amsterdam comes a close second after Rome for being the dirtiest city (Amsterdam is not a capital city)