LOL, I read almost all the replies and of course the
disnchanted report.Indy Lady, I am so sorry you could not enjoy Rome.
We have visit Rome many times, last time in March 07 and loved it, yes there is a lot of graffiti which is such a SHAME, but in spite of this sore expression of barbarism I enjoyed many, many places as usual.
As Margiela points out places like the Borghese Gardens, museums, monuments, the Roman Foro, Piazza del Campidoglio and so much more... I love walking through the Trastevere on Via de la Lungaretra stopping for a meal or gelatto or capuccino at Piazza Santa Maria in Trastevere . May be one of my favorites streets is Via Giulia and the crossing little streets and piazzas.
Piazza di Spagna was too crowded for me, so this year I had a look and got out of there in a sec, sometimes I find it is better not to follow the tourist crowds ...

>>Amsterdam comes a close second after Rome for being the dirtiest city (Amsterdam is not a capital city) <<

When I visited Amsterdam, I made the mistake on my first day of going to the red light district and the neighboring areas. I didn't like Amsterdam and thought it was dirty and never wanted to go back. Luckily I was there for three days, the next 2 days, I walked around the other canals, the residential areas and realized how wrong I originally I was about Amsterdam. I grew to really like the city and certainly wouldn't call it dirty. Sadly, most people go directly to the Red Light district and other areas that vendors just about shout out for you to get pot....if that's all visitors see, they will think it's dirty....I would say, the same goes for just about every city.

Hi

I guess we all have different experiences when we travel to various cities. For me Rome was amazing and it is a city that I would love to go back to. I find it breathtaking to be on historic ground, I was amazed by the Vatican museum and St. Peter's, I enjoyed the food and wine etc. Here is my trip report with pictures and links: http://gardkarlsen.com/rome_italy.htm

Regards
Gard
http://gardkarlsen.com - trip reports and pictures

>>Amsterdam comes a close second after Rome for being the dirtiest city (Amsterdam is not a capital city)---

What? Amsterdam is a capital city! what's that about.
anyway dirtiest city i've been to-milan.
going to rome in october, i'll try to cheer those people up.

I've been to Rome a few times and never felt in love with the city.
OTOH from a historical and cultural perspective, the eternal city can't be beaten.

Hi I,

>We first went to Paris for 8 days, then on to Rome. <

Next time, go to Rome first. It won't look so bad.

Yes, if she comes back, I'd kinda like to know if Rome was truly awful even following the advice of Fodorites as she said. We're a knowledgeable bunch, so I'm sort of surprised it was <i>truly</i> awful if she followed any of our &quot;great help&quot;. Every meal was horrible? The flights, accomodation, transportation hellacious? Bad gelato at every turn? She missed all the graffiti-free beauty I see in Sandi's pictures?

Ira, your point is well taken: Paris can seem so beautiful (and organized, even modern) by comparison that Rome - a very different ploace - will suffer by comparison on those grounds.

Paris has the benefit of seemingly limitless funding from the national government. Paris is not necessarily cleaner because the people keep it that way on a person-to-person basis, but because it is cleaned every day - almost all through the day in some places, it seems. By comparison, I don't think you see street sweepers all over Rome in the early morning - though you will see shopkeepers sweeping their areas.

Amsterdam has its dirty corners, but when there I've stayed at the Ambassade on the Herrengracht, one of the prettiest of the canals and a really charming place for a visitor. I also find the cultural scene interesting in Amsterdam: there is English-speaking theater, for one thing, of a high quality. The shops - antiques and modern design, for instance - are great, and the shopkeepers affable.

Last time in Rome I stayed on the Aventine, also a beautiful, calm and sane neighborhood (and meticulously clean - at least in part because there are not thousands of tourists passing through daily). But the price at the San Anselmo group of hotels on the Aventine is about double several years ago, it seems, so I may have to go elsewhere next time!

Generally speaking, there is something to be said for those hotels (and apts) even just around the corner from the beaten path. (Haven't tried the 16th in Paris, but I've read so many good things about staying in this lovely neighborhood that I'm tempted to try it sometime.)

Europesthebest: FYI, Den Haag is the capital city of Netherlands. I actually enjoy Milan better than Rome probably because we just stayed in the nice central part instead of exploring historical sights.

I was perhaps too harsh about Rome, it does have great history and atmosphere if I can just overlook the grafitti,pollution and neglect. Even Via Giulia has its share of grafitti and can use some repair/maintenance.

Ira that was our mistake too. The first time we went to Rome after northern Italy and Tuscany, Rome was a culture shock after going through the best parts of Italy. We were so disgusted that we cut our stay in Rome from 5 days to 3 days begging the airline to let us fly out sooner.

The second time we went to Rome after Paris and decided to drive out of Rome a day earlier. The third time we went to Rome after staying a week in Switzerland, we just couldn't take Rome beyond 2 days, so we packed our bags and went on stand by at the airport starting at 6 am and were so fortunate to be able to fly back to Switzerland.

ttt

I went to Rome and hated it. I couldn't find an Olive Garden anywhere. And the McDonalds shakes tasted funnier than ours.

As a tangent here, I remember reading accounts of Rome both in the ancient days and much later, re: how the palaces of Latin Rome and the Palazzi to follow might be gorgeously appointed inside, but the public streets ... less so. Compared to the members of the court at Versailles using the stairwells for toilets, I suppose that's not so bad!

&lt;&lt;the Italians are so unhappy, it is so sad there.&gt;&gt;

I don't know about other parts of the city, but I think they are unhappy in Centro Storico because the Piazza della Rotonda used to be a wonderful parking lot, holding thousands of Fiat 500's. Now that it has been taken over by McDonalds, Eastern European run pizzerias and illegal immigrants selling foreign made knockoffs of fine Italian goods, there's nowhere to park! Further, you cannot even buy a Fiat 500, you have to settle for a foreign made Smart.

I was glad the Italy trip I took had Rome at the end - I would not have wanted deal with Rome with jet lag!

I loved Rome. We were there for 2 very busy days and it just wasn't enough. I loved the artwork, the churches. I also really like cities so it was fun to be in a city after tiny Assisi and smaller Florence.

I do admit to being a bit spooked by all the stuff you read about Rome in the travel books. It makes it seem like you will be fondled by pickpockets at every turn. I wore a money belt and had no problems, but I did notice that in a city like London, I didn't have the same fear for my personal belongings like I did in Rome.

I guess I also wanted to say that everyone should be allowed to say how they feel without being personally attacked.

I didn't experience the Rome that the OP did - at all. But we all don't have to love the same places.

Travel as is Food are subjective Subjects and as the French sayquot; A Chacun Son Gout&quot;.

Yes ! I agree with Gianni- FL,I also understand why sometimes the Romans might feel unhappy....
but all over Europe lots of people can feel unhappy for similar reasons and they are not even in Rome....
and I agree with the Italian say&quot; Governo ladro&quot;, I mean politicians ...

Indylady - I'm sorry that you were disappointed with that part of your trip. We can't all enjoy the same places in the same way. But some of your statements are a tiny bit, um, odd? Worse than 3rd world? Dirty flags (who cares? We are not precious about flags in Europe) deplorable conditions? unhappy Italians? Rome a sad place? I can't help wondering exactly where in Rome you stayed, and where you went. Every city has its slum areas - did you end up staying in one and that put you off the whole city?

Personally I love cities with a bit of grit and dirt - I want to know I'm in a city not in a little town. I love the way the Colosseum sticks up in the middle of all that traffic. The sheer visual incongruity of it appeals to my surreal side.

I'm with you nona1... stepping out of the metro and looking up at the Colosseum was breathtaking. And my sister and I were over the moon when we accidentally wandered into the Circus Maximus on our way back to our hotel. The Circus Maximus!!

Have you ever been to New York City? I've seen more garbage there on city streets than in Rome. It's just something that comes with metropolitan areas unfortunately.