See Rome and die...I don't think that was meant to be from cholera.

Is it me, or has anyonbody else wondered why the OP has not come back and expanded on her reasons for why she hated Rome sooooo much?

indylady, I am sorry that you did not like Rome, but some of your comments seemed a little odd. And as others have said, try going during offseason, less crowds, less heat. It makes a world of difference.

I myself am counting down the days (81) until my second visit to this amazing city.

Tom

I'm of the ones who are not in love with Rome though I've been there twice but I still don't understand the point of the OP...sad italians ? dirty flags ? I suppose there should be flags on official buildings but I've never looked at them...there are much better things to look at in Rome
All of us can fall in love with very different things,sure..but that doesn't mean anything against the inner value of things.. And Rome is a most valuable place in many aspects (art, history, Italia's capital city) , no matter if we like it or not. I sometimes think people expect it to be a living museum..and it is not, it's a modern city..as complex as any other.

I've never been to Rome, so I'm finding this a fascinating thread for reading. We've not chosen where we'll spend a week long city break next spring. Grit and chaos? I suspect we might like Rome quite a lot.

But it's nice that threads like this appear, because there really is, most times, a habit of either varnishing places on these forums or ignoring them. Disappointment = unmet expectations. When people are taunted for not liking a major city, it may convince the next one to stay quiet. Worried that such a report would sway people off your favorite town? C'mon... Rome???

Isn't it better that people hear all not just about the gelato but the cig butts? What's it hurt except to set some realistic expectations and maybe keep someone from going there with some sort of 1950's movie fanatasy in their head? I, for one, appreciate the flip side, so thanks indylady.

My husband and I were in Rome in September, 2001 during the 9/11 attack in the US. We loved the city and it's historical sites. Absolutey loved them. We didn't see any graffiti, and the streets were no dirtier than some streets back home in NJ/NY. We had no problem with pick pockets and took the metro and/or bus to go everywhere. We were there 5 days and stayed right on the Via Veneto. We had a friend in Rome and were able to visit the normal tourist sites and the not so touristy spots. We definitely would return BUT our disappointment was with the Roman people. We just assumed they would be friendly like so many of the Italians we know, but not so, they were rude and didn't want to bother with us. Besides English, we speak Spanish and a little Italian and French. For example, the hotel personnel was reluctant to help us call or fax the US after the attack. They simply said we couldn't call and didn't seem sympathetic at all. Not one word of empathy. Then, if we asked someone on the street, "Excuse me sir or madam, where is.....? They would raise their hand impatiently as to dismiss us and say "Non lo so". On another occasion, our Roman friend asked a waiter a question and got a nasty reply. We've traveled all over Europe, Latin America and the Caribbean and know that there are nice people and rude people in every place. You can't put all people in a group. Same with the Romans. It's just that we found so many rude people it was hard at first. But, while people watching on the Via Veneto over lunch or dinner we observed this is the way the Romans interacted with one another (hence the waiter and our friend), so we realized their rudeness wasn't personal against us. After that, we just expected it so we weren't put off. As I said, we would definitely return as we love the city, but we won't expect the people to be nice. Oh, here's something else: a tour guide, on one of the local trips we took, explained to the whole group of tourist with great pride and arrogance that he was a true Roman, because in order to be a true Roman, a family must have lived in Rome for at least 7 previous generations and it must represent the true Roman spirit - be sophisticated and educated. As he said many times on our tour, "Allora, many are Italians but only a few are Romans! Talk about arrogant and anyway, who cares?

I went to Rome in 1995 and was enchanted by it. I had studied Latin at school so I knew a great deal of its history. The historical buildings were magnificent and everywhere I went I saw beauty. I went again in Oct. 2005 and was very disappointed.Graffiti seemed to envelop the city,the garbage on the streets was awful,many of the historical buildings were in need of conservation and I spent hours waiting for admission to the Vatican Museum and the roof of St Peters. I like Italian food but did not get a memorable meal anywhere even though I paid top dollar.I still think the city is worth a visit though for anybody with an interest in art and history.

nilady, is not Arrogance but is Pride..The Romans are very proud and love their city immensely..I know and can understand these feelings very well, because I am also a native of Rome..

Hi njlady, as you I speak Spanish and French and broken Italian, but my experience has always been so different, I have approached during our last trip to Rome (March 2007)many persons in the street of Rome to ask for directions and always obtained the most polite and nice reply. In my experience it is always wise to choose a person that seems a nice local. I have been very lucky approaching ladies that seemed to live in the area,it is easy to guess because they might carry a package from local shopping etc, for instance I was staying in the Trastevere and I stopped a lady asking for a laundrymat,she was extremely helpful and gave me great directions to the perfect place, another time I could not find the entrance to Villa Farnesina, the fascinating
first suburban Roman villa of the 1500s, another lady and her husband were parking the car nearby, she was most kind and gave us the directions to the hidden located entrance. But this is not all, later when we were inside the Villa, there they were again in the company of some visiting friends ,although my Italian is so , so, she smiled and chat for a little while... often I asked people at bus stops information relating to buses , always a good polite answer....so I guess it depends a lot who do you approach and its imposible to generalize.
For instance I think it is unwise to approach for information some that seems to be in a hurry.
Sometimes you might have a bad experience like ages ago in London I asked an ederly gentleman who looked quiet elegant for a direction and he ended up asking for me to lend him 15 pounds !LOL!

Graziella, you were very lucky or we were very unlucky, I don't know which... We are always polite so as not to inconvenience anyone who was carrying heavy packages, dealing with young children, etc. No, these were regular "nice" looking people who just couldn't be bothered. Further, we always try to follow local customs. For example, our Italian friend told us that it was not customary to have coffee with milk after 12 noon so we didn't. That's part of the great thing about traveling, to learn other cultures and customs. As I said, we adjusted and it didn't bother us. By the way, the people were very nice in Milan and the Lake Como area. Thanks for your reply!

I do not know where you live full-time but I must guess a smaller city or town or even a more rural setting. What you experienced was not a reaction to Rome but a "big" city. I first visited Rome last October & loved it beyond all belief-but I am a native New Yorker born in the Bronx & I am very much used to what you saw as problems with Rome-I never even considered them, focusing on what I came to see. Go back again & I believe your perception will change.

Judge: I'm a city girl, raised in Manhattan - school, work, etc. Now, I live in Jersey but go into the city frequently. As I said, there are all kinds of people everywhere but, I think native New Yorkers are a great people, and very helpful. We've traveled extensively and never encountered what we encountered in Rome but having said that, we will definitely go back. We loved Rome!

I had the same experience as njlady when I was there May 06, and it had nothing to do with being from a small city or town. I also live in NJ but had lived in Brooklyn for many years and have worked in Manhattan for the past 10 years. I work right in midtown in a building on top of Penn Station so I encounter tourists every single day so I understand what it's like to be in an overcrowded, fast-moving city. I came across people in Rome that just couldn't be bothered or were downright rude, no matter how nice you were to them, and this included waiters, police officers, bus drivers, regular Joe's or Giuseppe's on the street. I loved the city but could take or leave the people. I am willing to go back to try another visit, though, because the sites just blew me away.

There's a place for everyone so just keep traveling until you find yours.

I have found that there are two types of people in this world...those who love Italy and those who do not!

Those who love it will keeping going back over and over and over and cannot get enough...and...those who hate it...well...all I can say is, don't go back...and certainly don't go any further South!

Italy is what it is...you're not going to change it

(and I say this as someone who NEVER, ever, wanted to go to Italy AT ALL my first trip to Europe! Paris was all I thought of...well...got dragged kicking and screaming with friends...and after one day in Italy, I was hooked for life! I've been going back every year since I was 18 years old and now own a house there!)

Well said casadelCipresso, I always said that travel is a very subjective thing because we are different people, with different perspectives and views of life and the world in general..

What is great and fascinating to a person, can be a totally negative experience to another.

BTW, I lived in NY for 3 years and unless things are changed I never found people very helpful or going out their ways to help you, especially if you did not know the native language..

Now dealings and livings among the Southerners has been and still is a great experience..

wheretogonext: Seems like your experience was a carbon copy of ours. Yep! They were rude all over but that won't stop us from returning since there are many more sites we want to see. Since our return, we have heard many similar negative experiences from relatives and friend. Thank you for sharing your story. Next month we'll be in Greece for 2 weeks!

In my admittedly limited experience, Italians from outside Roma also think of Romans as a breed apart. (To a degree, Italians are a territorial people who can for hundreds of years hold suspicions of the next region, the next province, the next town, the adjacent neighborhood - and the neighbors. All of that has changed in the past 50 years or so, surely, as people have become more mobile in search of jobs, and young people have left small towns in search of jobs and excitement.)

My Roman experience is a bit better - my Roman friends are among the sweetest people I've ever known. But I don't doubt that one could come up with some nasty ones. After all, there are a lot of bureaucrats in Rome!

I think it just depends on who you encounter. Obviously not everyone in Rome is rude, but if you encounter rudeness than its easy to get discouraged about that place. I have never experienced much rudeness in Rome, but we found London to have some of the rudest people we have encountered. I doubt that many people would agree with me, but its just a personal experience that we had. It wouldn't keep me from going back though; I always tell people that I don't travel to Europe to make penpals!

Tracy

To Indylady (if she comes back....)

Just an idea to grapple with.

Most of us, as independent travelers of widely varied experiences, will agree to some degree that the word "vacation" does not apply in reference to our travels. Vacation is a trip to Hawaii, Bahamas/Carib, a cottage on a lake in Canada....but what we do is actually "work"...the most rewarding, enjoyable, challenging, educational "work" imaginable.

It all starts in the vital planning stage (for most of us I imagine that's between 6 months to a year prior to jetting off). This takes poring through our own past journals, hours at our personal libraries (Barnes and Noble, Borders, the local "public&quot, chatting with fellow travelers, the internet, and yes, of course, logging into this forum.

My contention is, if you do not "work" at it, no trip of any length will be fully satisfying...and you will suffer some disappointments....minor and severe.

I do hope you do more than just counting on this forum for your planning...do most of it yourself. You have the same resources as we all do...but, again, at the risk of sounding demanding, you must "work" at it, long and diligently.

I'm guessing...but I think your visit to Rome could possibly have been much more pleasant and fun had you considered the "work" aspect described herein.

Best wishes for future travel enjoyment...no matter where you choose to go.(Btw, here in L.A. graffiti is considered "art&quot

Stu T.

A lot of different experiences, have faith Indylady with a little bit of luck everything will be better next time.
The potential is there. Avoid those too crowded places full of tourist that turn any place in something that is not pleasant, walk those charming streets,piazzas, enjoy art, a church , a fountain eat where the locals go and make an effort to find nice Romans because they do exist.
Best luck next time. It is funny because in general terms I agree that more than one place in Europe have turned in the last decades for the worst, but since this is to-day 's Europe we have no choice.

My sister and I found Romans to be fascinating. Upon first approach, many of them seemed to be a bit chilly, but then they almost always surprised us with some act of warmth.

The female desk clerk at our hotel was also a bit chilly at check in, but later on when we asked her how to find Campo di Fiore, she smiled and said, "Ah, you are going to have a good time," and gave us directions.

On our way there, we had trouble finding the right bus. When a bus did arrive, we peeked inside and said "A Baullari? And the passengers loudly corrected our pronunciation. We apologized and got on, and were then surprised when the people asked where we were going. We said "Campo di Fiore" and they all burst into smiles and said we would love it, and that they would help us find it. When we arrived at the stop, nearly the entire bus got off and walked us up to the square.

I'm sure there are not-so-nice people there, but I find that a smile and a little faith in people can yield some great surprises.