PalenQ

fuss -stop making a big fuss about nothing - we are giving advice to others to help prevent them being victims - not sure what your goal is but to be contrary - focus on the point here - folks can reduce their chances of being a victim of theft by taking proper precautions -nothing to do with excusing the perpetrator.

You're both assigning blame to the victim.>

Yes for aiding themselves in being victimized but that is not excusing the thieves at all.

Fussgaenger

"Well Fuess since you go into semantic pay attention to the fact that some here don't speak English as their mother tongue."

We can't chalk this usage up to weak English. The ones using "inviting" are not budding level-1 English learners but sophisticated English speakers with broad vocabularies that have acquired a very commonplace (and pernicious) English euphemism that is routinely used against innocent victims.

Every famous person that dies "loses a battle against" whatever killed him - whether he fought it hard or just gave up. It's a stupid euphemism - but not a harmful one. No big deal. But... "Inviting" crime is very different. We shouldn't use it thoughtlessly - or at all really. I absolutely believe that language like this - even if you use it casually without thinking about what you're saying - trains our brains to blame the innocent and exonerate the guilty.

Hey, call me the language police if you like. There are a few things like this that may appear trivial to some who don't give it much thought but that are worth standing up for, IMO.

PalenQ

Fuss- say someone puts out a diamond-studded gold vase in their front garden - private property - and someone of course at some time steals it - of course we blame the criminal for taking it but also the vase owner for making it so easy to take.

Same with wearing expensive jewels or gold chains in pickpocket-prone places- low hanging fruit gets picked first.

angel1

The mistake my daughter-in-law did is to keep her wallet in the backsack. That is the reason probably someone very smartly picked it up, in a span of few seconds when we were boarding the tram. Putting so much money in one place was also a stupid thing. 650 Euros is quite a big thing in terms of rupees. So we learnt the lesson. But in Rome, we were super cautious, tightly holding the bag, chain was underneath the t-shirt and a sweater and a jacket. But the guy came suddenly, held my son's shoulder and snatched the chain so swiftly that my son didn't even feel it. Then the guy tried to pull the sack wore on the front and not the back. But he could not pull it so he gave blow and then we all four game him and his partner a good one, got the chain back and went to hotel quickly. Luckily we were four and healthy enough to fight, it was saved. But it again spoilt our mood. We did not dare to go to Termini area after that, thinking there could be a bigger gang and they may think of revenge. Even if the incidence happens in public, I am sure no one else will come to help and Police, I am not sure.

kleeblatt

It's awful being a victim of theft and it can ruin your holiday.

One needs to be observant of the possibility of pickpockets in any crowd in Europe. I'm a local in Switzerland my friends have been pickpockets in trains, McDonald's, and at events in Zürich. Pickpocketing has become worse in Switzerland, however, if you're aware of your surroundings and protect your valuables, the chances of being a victim diminish rapidly.

Fussgaenger

WoinParis: Are you drinking late, or early? German flaws aside... your comments in English and in French make no sense.

bvlenci

Robbery involving physical assault is very rare in Rome. I'm very sorry this happened to you, but you don't have to worry that this is a common occurrence.

Pickpocketing is fairly common, however, although in 20 years of visiting Rome very frequently, I've never had anything stolen. I don't use money belts; I just keep my purse well under my control, and I dress unobtrusively.

kerouac

Visitors should also be aware that in many of our countries, there is more unemployment than 20 years ago, and it is one of the reasons that there is more theft than before.

Naturally, most professional pickpockets have never worked at a real job, but since pickpockets often work in pairs or trios, it is easy to recruit unemployed "helpers" because they don't feel guilty if they have not done the actual snatching.

PalenQ

Saying they're "inviting" assault is disgusting.<

semantics - naive folks who do not take precautions - like a wallet in a back pocket in the Paris metro stations or any crowded area - is inviting being victimized.

menachem

You guys remind me of the talmud discussion that every yeshiva student learns first: a discussion about found objects in a public place and whether it is permitted to take an object if we don't know whether it was abandoned by its owner. Keep up the good work, guys, I love pilpul.

justineparis

Angel.. so sorry this happened to you.. very scary I know. I have had two attempts made on my purse.. once in 1985, and once about 7 or 8 years ago. Both times I thwarted the attempts by screaming and pushing the mans hand away.. both times I held myself somewhat responsible. I was being careless both times.

The first time I was young, so not very travel savvy, I had a cute little purse I had casually slung over my one shoulder, it only had a zipper on top, completely exposed,, I was also walking along excited to be in Paris and not really focusing on my surroundings.. This was in broad daylight , on the Boulevard St Michel . Its a very wide sidewalk in that area, so all of a sudden I get my head out of the stars and I realize there is a man walking too close to me.. very close, just by my shoulder, but why, the sidewalk was so wide and there was so much room around me, it was not very crowded.. so I instantly looked down at my purse, it was unzipped ( and I knew I had zipped it ).. so I immediately yelled and used my arm to shove the man away, he was inches from me.. almost touching!! He yelled something at me in French,, and then HE ran away.. not the act of an innocent man.

The second time I was in a metro station , alone, in an outer arrondissment.. there was no one in the hallway with me at first. I was a bit confused, I was looking for a connection and had stopped at the wall map to look, ah, so a confused tourist. I was walking alone in the empty passageway and all of a sudden I am aware a man is now also right beside my shoulder, I look down , his hand is on my purse.. I scream, I was so angry I screamed English swear words at him ( which now I think is so funny) and I told him to get a real job.. I pushed him away.. he motioned to me that he was just looking for a light for his cigarette.. I yelled more and he too ran away ( I think I was lucky, we were all alone, but I was so very angry I likely scared him, I think I would have attacked him even more, I have never been so mad for some reason) .

So .. this pickpocketing is not new at all.. and they do look for people who look easy , alone, or confused, or maybe distracted, with children, with luggage, anything that makes you look like an easy target, and I do believe some locals would help you if they were there,, after my incident on the Boulevard St Michel some friends of mine who were behind me walking ran up to me, as did other people on the street.

The incident 7-8 years ago.. I continued on my journey to St Denis, and enjoyed my day very much. I was however much more aware on my way home and I also mapped out the route I was going to take on the metro before I entered the metro station so I would look like I knew where I was going.

I would never ever carry a large sum of money in my bag.

And I never wear or even bring my good jewelry when travelling.. not just because of pickpockets but also because I wouldn't want to lose it.

kerouac

I am probably the expert on the subject here, because I have been pickpocketed 3 times in my life, I have been mugged twice, I have had things stolen (on a bus, from the trunk of my rental car, when I wandered away for 2 minutes...), my apartment has been burglarized once and have had attempted burglaries two other times (not the same dwelling).

So basically what I know is not how to prevent it but how useless one feels when reporting it to the police, which I would always continue to do anyway.

I should also mention that I consider myself to be extremely vigilant (guess why!), but most of the times I have had a problem is because the people I was with were relaxed and they caused me to relax too.

Just for the record, yes I do travel to dangerous places, but three of the concerned incidents took place in Paris.