annhig

that's very interesting GP - a good example of the locals extracting from an import the features that they like and discarding the rest.

I wish that my fellow Cornwallians were as discerning. Truro [the county town, which despite having only 20,00 inhabitants is actually a city] is heaving with chain coffee shops - Starbucks, Costs, Nero - we've got them all. Few of my friends and colleagues patronise them, preferring the independently owned places that also abound. Perhaps they are kept afloat by the tourists who descend upon us every summer. Last time I strayed into Costa [only because it's the closest cafe to my office] the staff were so busy complaining about their working conditions that they forgot to serve me.

kleeblatt

Starbucks coffee machines are made in Weggis, Switzerland, by Thermoplan. I am a fan of Swiss quality but I have to agree with many that Starbucks coffee quality could be better. I had a Starbucks coffee in London and it tasted burnt. Yuck.

Blueeyedcod

I think burnt coffee is not the fault of the product - it's the fault of the operator/barista ('barista' - a term I dislike as in Italy it involves more than just making coffee) who don't operate their equipment properly and don't have adequate training. Most primary product - coffee beans - come from South America/Central America so I'm sure Starbucks don't have their very own coffee plantation/s which are all bad beans. Correct me if I am wrong.

This is like saying KFC make 'bad chicken' because they have a global name/reputation. There appears to be a universal snobbery when it comes to global food brands. I think KFC make make great chicken - many would disagre. Starbucks have made me good coffee in the few times I have asked for an espresso. I don't understand the sugary caramel latte business but hey, that's not real coffee to me and you sure can't get a caramel latte in Italy.

Blueeyedcod

Edit to above post 'you sure can't get a caramel latte in my Naples home or any place in Rome where I spend a lot of time'

PalenQ

Edit to above post 'you sure can't get a caramel latte in my Naples home or any place in Rome where I spend a lot of time'>

Sounds like they need a Starbucks then!

meuniere

Why are Starbucks not present in Italy? the Italians prefer home grown fraudsters.
Anger as Starbucks boss says: We may not pay UK tax for up to three years
Chief Executive Mark Fox said chain aimed to be profitable by 2017
Mr Fox insisted there was 'nothing abnormal' about the way firm was run
Starbucks slated in 2012 after paying just £8.6m in tax on £3bn of sales
Coffee chain remains under investigation by the European Commission
It volunteered to pay £20 million tax payment in 2012 after complaints


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3oiaHTp5d
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PalenQ

A current thread says Starbucks is opening soon in Milan - foot in the door - they could do like McDonalds who was stymied by local authorities and just buy a chain of caffes - McDonalds bought out Burghy - think that was the name of an Italian burger chain - and in one fell swoop entered the Italian market big time - had a few places before like in Rome that were and are always very popular when I've been in them.

nochblad

PalenQ - I wrote the other thread.

There is a big difference between Starbucks and McDonalds and that relates to pricing.

McDonalds operates in a very competitive market and appreciated that their pricing needs to reflect that.

In Italy an espresso (in a proper espresso cup which is generally warm to start with) sells at roughly 1 Euro in the north of Italy and generally gets cheaper the further south one travels. I hardly think that Starbucks will sell at these prices.

A bar in Italy will not charge for an espresso lungo - an espresso with a little more water whereas Starbucks does.

Also in Italy there is an approach to coffe quite different to the Starbucks culture. People will choose one bar over another because they serve Illy, rather than Lavazzo rather than Segafredo rather than .... Also they will know that one bar can serve Illy better than another Illy bar, etc etc. Even they will know that one barista is better at making their coffee rather than another.

This extends to many other products and "servers". Some places have better prosciutto than others and some servers can cut it better than others.

Starbucks will never be able to match this competence.

Also they will not be able to mess around with the Italian tax authorities as they have done in the UK, Ireland and elsewhere.

PalenQ

I'm not taking stands but folks go to Starbucks here and in London and other European cities not just for coffee but a nice place to sit and rest or read or study with free WI-FI - for their ambience that I see lacking in may Italian caffe where typically it seems locals come in belly up to the counter get an expresso and in one fell swoop gulp it down and are gone. Coffee is not the main draw at many.

nochblad

PalenQ - I think that you do not understand Italian coffee culture which, apart from the pricing, varies from one region to another.

PalenQ

I'm thinking of Starbucks attracting foreign tourists in places like Rome and Florence - it's a novel thing for Italians just to go to a cafe and red the paper, linger, study, etc.? Again it ain't the coffee that makes Starbucks so popular everywhere else in Europe - I think Italy is not that unique or are there caffes where people come and sit for hours - not even having to buy anything if not wanting to?

If Starbucks can make it in France and Austria it can in Italy - as a niche and something unique - do Italian caffes have free WI-FI where folks can stay for hours - maybe so I do not claim to know much about the Italian coffee culture - just that I love Cappuccinos even in the afternoon - sacrilege I've been told?

flpab

We saw a dunkin dunuts in Nuremberg. It was not there two years ago. I just think there are so many better places to get coffee but I am a latte drinker with a tiny bit of sugar. Those calorie laden coffee drinks are not really coffee to me. I go to Costa if I need a bathroom. Your code for the bathroom door is on your receipt.

gooresh

I guess, Italian people are just refusing any modernity. They deeply believe that: They have the most beautiful country in the world, the best food, the best women and men, the best culture ans so forth.
And of course they believe they make the best coffee in the world, for them our life style is just rednecks attitude. But not only they also refuse nearly anything coming from Asia, Africa etc. But for them the worst are American people, English spoken countries and some other European countries like Germany, Austria, France, Belgium, Netherlands and for sure Nordic countries etc.
Just leave away their stupid espresso.

Happy new year to all of you.

nochblad

gooresh - registered December 2015.

Frankly that says it all.

PalenQ

Frankly that says it all.>

Says what that the observor's points are not IMO mainly well taken though I do not necessarily agree with many of them but some for sure - maybe someone not registered was reading Fodor's for a while and never saw something they wanted to comment on.

Ah conspiracy theorists seeing conspiracies all around - what do you think was the 'real' intention of this new poster - are new posters always subject to doubt when they make their first post?

so Question for nochblad- what do you mean 'says it all' - you imply some impropriety so what is it?

Italy fought long to keep McDonalds out and the ballyhooed 'Slow Food' movement has kept them and other foreign chains out of many slow food towns - McDonalds had to come in the back door by buying the domestic Burghy fast-food chain, in one fell swoop and is now extremely popular in Italy - keeping Starbucks out is the same - let them come in and flop or more likely take a share of the coffee market from local caffes - if a country has to protect its culture thru banning foreign competition then that culture is not worth saving IMO.

That said I love Italian coffee, especially cappuccino which I even sacrilegiously order in the afternoon!

Let the free market work and give Italian young folk the chance to be like the rest of the world!

nochblad

Your ignorance, presumptuousness and grammar are beyond bounds.

PalenQ

nochblad - answer what you mean by 'that says it all' - what does it say - enlighten my ignorance with your presumed presumptuousness!

Easy to make charges with a simple attack - hard to explain why it 'says it all.'

I expect no answer and that is very telling.

do you do this to all first-time posters?

I think you owe the OP an apology or explanation or both!

annhig

gooresh is indeed a new member and, I suspect not one who has english as her/his first language. So we should cut some slack and and forgive, even a dislike of expresso!

PalenQ

yes and not make pre-judgments of sinister intents! I rather think that if gooresh said something nochblad agreed with he/she/it would have not made that accusation of not passing the smell test.

Too often new members IMO get chased away by IMO often rude Fodorgarchs and Fodor's is of course hurt by this as new posters are no doubt the economical life of the whole site.

flpab

Exactly Pal. Stop running off newbies. If English is their second language they do hell of a better job than I writing Italian.

We have a starbucks on every corner and if I am paying that much for coffee then I want it in a real coffee cup with my latte swirled, can sit and enjoy it.

WaWa is my coffee place.