raincitygirl

PalenQ I'm not sure where you get the idea people in Italy have nowhere to read, study get free wi-fi etc. On our recent trip I saw people hanging out in coffee bars, gelato places, piazzas, etc etc. There was free wi-fi all over the place.

raincitygirl

dfourh, LOL. Sugar producers must love Starbucks.

PalenQ

raincitygal - thanks for that update - it's been a few years since I've been there and don't recall those type of places - at least on par with Starbucks where everyone it seems is there for the duration and no one cares if they buy anything - I've sat in caffe waiting trains and at times have been told I must buy something or vamoose.

laverendrye

Tis from Little Orphan Annie and means nothing in relation to the brew.>>

It has nothing to do with Little Orphan Annie. You are thinking of Daddy Warbucks.

Starbuck, after whom the chain was named, was the first mate on the Pequod in Moby Dick.

Rubicund

I know that we're all aware of the tax avoidance schemes that places like Starbucks use, but it never hurts to be reminded that Dickie_Gr may be right about fraud, it's just proving it:

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/exp...tumn-statement

flygirl

OK, now that, that, I don't like about Starbucks.

PalenQ

Starbcks HQs is in Amsterdam I believe for tax reasons (European operations) and I blame the Dutch government as much for that as I do Starbucks taking advantage of a tax policy the Dutch government has put in place to snare the likes of Starbucks and many other international giants hedquarters.

Dickie_Gr

These retailers expect a well educated, healthy workforce and clean safe streets but are not prepared to contribute a penny towards these goals.

Most listed companies are motivated by annual gains not long term goals. Tax should be seen as a long term investment not a cost to avoid.

amyb

hmmmm... I have the Starbcuks city mug for Florence and the Italia one so there had to be at least one there in the early 2000s. The city mugs aren't sold outside of the city they're touting. I've not been to Italy since 2007 so maybe they pulled out of the market since then?

Personally I like the coffee. In Boston the choices are sbux or dunkin donuts which is shite. Sbux never purported to be better than what is hand crafted for you in a coffee shop in places like Vienna or Rome. To even attempt to make that comparison is naive.

Tulips

There is a Starbucks in Antwerp Central Station. A tall cappucino costs 3,75 euros. It's always packed.
You can get good coffee from local cafes, but can be pretty bad too. Coffee to take away was pretty much unheard of before Starbucks.

You can complain about the quality of Starbucks, but I lived in Atlanta in the 80s, when the coffee at most restaurants was awful; large mugs of very weak coffee. There was no coffee culture, you could not get a decent espresso or cappucino. Starbucks was a huge improvement on that.

wesleymarsh

When I travel in the U.S. for business and I see a Starbucks, I'm relieved. At least I know what to expect. For $1.65, I will get a strong cup of full-bodied coffee that often hits the spot. If I had a choice of Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, and McDonalds, I'd pick Starbucks.

The regular coffee at Starbucks is different at every location and I think the bean choice changes daily. Sometimes it can taste burnt, often not. I drink coffee with milk and sugar, which alters the true flavor of a naked brew.

In Europe, I would ignore Starbucks if a local cafe is nearby.

PalenQ

, Dunkin Donuts, and McDonalds, I'd pick Starbucks.>

Actually in blind taste tests Dunkin; Donuts and McDs do as well as Starbucks - Mc's gourmet coffees - espresso, etc come from I understand Italian machines order thru their Italian operations and are state of the art.

bvlenci

Italy is actually way behind other European countries in providing free WiFi. Until very recently, you had to register all users of public WiFi (out of a fear that terrorists would use it anonymously). The law has been loosened somewhat, but many places still require that you have an Italian cell phone, to which they send the password by SMS.

dfourh

I've never had a McDonalds espresso but someone from theshot.coffeeratings.com braved a review. Given their "superautomated machines" and purchase of beans in huge lots "to blend out the flavor profile to a single, consistent stew spread across entire nations," the conclusion was: "the espresso here may not be good, but it isn’t outright awful."

http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/200...alds-espresso/

dfourh

>>>>>There is a Starbucks in Antwerp Central Station. A tall cappucino costs 3,75 euros. It's always packed.

Location, location, location. I had an espresso there, and it gave me what I needed, but a little checking around found this place for the next day - - had a quiet table on the quiet street - - and you can see by the picture just how rich that cafe' macchiato is - - carefully sculpted by somebody who cares about the beans, the product, and the presentation.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dougla...57634520511799

Kolonel Koffie "The owner of this brand new bar, Kobe, is a charming young barista with a true passion for coffee ... started experimenting with coffee in his own living room ... soon discovered he had a knack for brewing black gold ... selects the beans himself and makes every café latte into a little piece of art. ... be greeted by one of the best barista’s in Antwerp and enjoy a great coffee."
http://thisisantwerp.be/blog/hotspot...kolonel-koffie

Tulips

There's an article in the local paper here in Belgium today about coffee bars, with a mention of Kolonel Koffie.
Cafenation is good too.

The article is about 'koffiekrakers' - 'coffee squatters'; people who sit in a cafe with a laptop all day, while ordering just one coffee. Coffeeshop Panorama in Gent has banned laptops.

dfourh

Great tips Tulips. I have a friend who is a translator - - and he literally sits in coffee shops all day long to do his work. You cannot imagine how many Facebook pix from him I have with latte's in them.

The owner of Kolonel Koffie got his inspiration in Australia (where, as noted above, there is a great Italian-based coffee culture).

Here's hoping for plenty more of the good stuff for you and all here on Fodors!

PalenQ

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/05/bu...hain.html?_r=0

Starbucks has apparently heard the plea for more exoctic coffee - maybe one that can compete in an Italy known for good coffee but IMO not great - pretty much all the same with tons of sugar.

flygirl

PalenQ - to me, that's part of why I am not super crazy about their coffee. One packet of raw sugar and a good dose of H&H is as much as I would prefer to add, calorie wise, to my morning coffee. But it's still too bitter.

Vanilla Lattes or Peppermint Mochas taste good but you're talking dessert at that point and not something you should be drinking every single day (or, if I'm going to add that kind of calorie count, I want an actual rich chocolate cupcake)

That said, I was at the beach over Thanksgiving and twice had their espresso, in a real ceramic cup, and did just that - one packet of raw sugar and some half and half. It was not half bad.

GaryPeter

Ad an American, of 100% Italian blood, living in Italy, and after having read the posts below, I have a rather different take on things. There is a rumor here that it is, indeed, Italy and the restaurant 'lobby' that will not allow Starbucks into Italy. Whether it be true, I know not. I do know that there are Starbucks pretenders, though, that are around regardless of province and that even the most snobbish of Italian coffee drinkers have become clients of these coffee joints. Primarily Arnold Coffee. My partner, a most haughty Neapolitan raised doctor and coffee connoisseur is quite in the habit now of stopping there when he is nearby, in Florence, where we live. However, neither he nor anyone else I know, Italian or foreigner, goes to this Starbucks influenced bar for espresso. Never seen it. They go there for the frapucino, cheese cake, carrot cake (which is, I must say, amazing), bagels and lox, etc. The market is there for American style coffee concoctions. No one would ever go there for an Italian style coffee. The cafes that I refer to might as well be called, Starbucks, because the menu is the same, just letters altered to avoid law suits, as is the atmosphere. Usually, I see Italians sitting outside, along with myself and tourists, drinking a Coffee Caramel Shake which is smothered in whipped cream and iced. It is identical to a frapucino. Again, the market is there. People will always go to their local bar for an espresso, on the run or in my case, a normal, if not a stronger "American coffee" which is two shots of espresso with a shot of hot water and costs €1.50. A frapucino costs €5.00. So, a frapucino is a treat and not to be confused with the morning, mid morning, after lunch, mid afternoon......espresso. My husband is attached to the large coffee and cinnamon, combo, hot. I, always American, go for the more fattening caramel and cream concoction. On Sunday's, we go for breakfast and have coffee and bagels and bring carrot cake hone for dessert or a treat in the afternoon. Passed by just today, at about 2PM, and the lube was out the door and all I heard was Italian being spoken. The conclusion is that Starbucks would succeed remembering that it is not espresso that would ever be their big seller but, instead, the Starbucks based coffee concoctions that it is more known for. Sorry for writing so much. Auguri a tutti!