Mother Hates Russia: How Can I Convince Her to Travel With Me?
Jun 23rd, 2011, 08:29 AM
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Mother Hates Russia: How Can I Convince Her to Travel With Me?
So, my mother left Moscow when she was 14 and says she has no intentions of ever going back to Russia. I started learning the language at university, and after 4 years of study I've decided I really want to go - it's a waste to study such a wonderful language and not get the chance to visit!
BUT she gets very angry every time I bring up the idea of a trip there, although I am very likely going to take a trip with my father to Ukraine (he's going for business) within the next year. She's freaks out about any idea of a trip for herself to both Ukraine & Russia, although she doesn't seem as against me and my dad going to Ukraine.
She's the one who is fluent in Russian and she could add so much more to the trip but she absolutely refuses to go to Russia: says it is dangerous (seriously), mafia will kidnap us or shoot us (only half-jokingly), there is nothing nice there anyway, etc etc.
I told her we can get a nice hotel & be completely sheltered from any ugliness in the city -- it's not like she's in a tiny apartment in Moscow anymore -- and we could even skip Moscow and just go for St Petersburg, still she won't budge. Yet I know she doesn't HATE Russia because we often have nice talks about culture, language, and fun events from her childhood, although every now and then she gets annoyed and starts going on about how we're in America now, she left Russia to get away from all that unpleasantness.
So this is a post bordering on the self-racist, but I would love to be able to travel to my mom's homeland with her, does anyone have any ideas? I know I could always go alone (and risk getting my family very angry!), but it would be so much nicer with her.
Let me know what you think!
BUT she gets very angry every time I bring up the idea of a trip there, although I am very likely going to take a trip with my father to Ukraine (he's going for business) within the next year. She's freaks out about any idea of a trip for herself to both Ukraine & Russia, although she doesn't seem as against me and my dad going to Ukraine.
She's the one who is fluent in Russian and she could add so much more to the trip but she absolutely refuses to go to Russia: says it is dangerous (seriously), mafia will kidnap us or shoot us (only half-jokingly), there is nothing nice there anyway, etc etc.
I told her we can get a nice hotel & be completely sheltered from any ugliness in the city -- it's not like she's in a tiny apartment in Moscow anymore -- and we could even skip Moscow and just go for St Petersburg, still she won't budge. Yet I know she doesn't HATE Russia because we often have nice talks about culture, language, and fun events from her childhood, although every now and then she gets annoyed and starts going on about how we're in America now, she left Russia to get away from all that unpleasantness.
So this is a post bordering on the self-racist, but I would love to be able to travel to my mom's homeland with her, does anyone have any ideas? I know I could always go alone (and risk getting my family very angry!), but it would be so much nicer with her.
Let me know what you think!
Jun 23rd, 2011, 08:55 AM
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I would not try to talk her into something she does not want.
But I also would not let her feelings play any role in deciding where you wish to spend your vacation.
Both of you are old enough to do or not do what you want, without asking permission or approval from either side.
But I also would not let her feelings play any role in deciding where you wish to spend your vacation.
Both of you are old enough to do or not do what you want, without asking permission or approval from either side.
Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:22 AM
#5
"<i>but it would be so much nicer with her.</i>"
Huh? It doesn't sound like it would be nice at all.
Go if you want to --but why on Earth would you want to 'force' your mom -- or lay a guilt trip on her - to travel someplace she does not want to go.
This sounds a bit like a spoiled child who wants things her way and to heck w/ her Mom's wishes.
Lay off her and find a friend to travel w/ . . .
Huh? It doesn't sound like it would be nice at all.
Go if you want to --but why on Earth would you want to 'force' your mom -- or lay a guilt trip on her - to travel someplace she does not want to go.
This sounds a bit like a spoiled child who wants things her way and to heck w/ her Mom's wishes.
Lay off her and find a friend to travel w/ . . .
Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:29 AM
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She obviousy doesn't want to go (whatever her reasons) and youneed to respect that. organize your own trip and have a great time.
(I sort of understand her POV. When I was in St pet the second time we spent some time with a locl professor we had met in NYC. And she was SO worried abuot SO many things that it made the trip very difficult. She was convinced that the police were listening to our phone calls (arranging to meet at some tourist sight or go to the ballet). She wouldn't get into a cab with us because she knew the drivers were too dangerous and we would be killed. She refused a couple of restaurants we selected since she knew the owners were criminals and we would be kidnaped. She may have been right - I don;t now - nor did I care. We ended up doing most things without her - since her left over USSR paranoia was somethng she culdn't control. It had nothing to do with logic. But spenidng time with us was making her miserble.)
You don't know what your mom went through - or what fears she still has - and you need to let your mom make this decisoion.
(I sort of understand her POV. When I was in St pet the second time we spent some time with a locl professor we had met in NYC. And she was SO worried abuot SO many things that it made the trip very difficult. She was convinced that the police were listening to our phone calls (arranging to meet at some tourist sight or go to the ballet). She wouldn't get into a cab with us because she knew the drivers were too dangerous and we would be killed. She refused a couple of restaurants we selected since she knew the owners were criminals and we would be kidnaped. She may have been right - I don;t now - nor did I care. We ended up doing most things without her - since her left over USSR paranoia was somethng she culdn't control. It had nothing to do with logic. But spenidng time with us was making her miserble.)
You don't know what your mom went through - or what fears she still has - and you need to let your mom make this decisoion.
Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:36 AM
#8
I agree - stop bugging your mother and start planning your own trip. I traveled from St. Petersburg to Ulan Ude by myself without speaking any Russian (though I could handle Cyrillic), so you should do fine. Also, loved Ukraine - hope you're going to visit Lviv.
Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Thanks everyone. You all have a good point. And it's probably true that part of my wish to persuade her is indeed because I'm afraid to go alone after all she's said!
nytraveler -- It's good to know my mom is not the only one who sees it that way.
thursdaysd -- I would love to go to Lviv, I'll keep that in mind! Do you know if they still speak Russian in the smaller cities in Ukraine?
nytraveler -- It's good to know my mom is not the only one who sees it that way.
thursdaysd -- I would love to go to Lviv, I'll keep that in mind! Do you know if they still speak Russian in the smaller cities in Ukraine?
Jun 23rd, 2011, 12:01 PM
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You may need to understand better how and to what degree your mother and her family suffered under the Soviet system.
As for Ukraine. Lviv isn't small. Most of Ukraine likely speaks some Russian, but (1) the native Russian speakers are primarily in the east, which is less developed and less interesting for tourists, and (2) you may get a lot of unhappy looks from Ukrainians if you speak too much Russian in the more, er, Orange Revolution friendly western areas (this includes Lviv). Poles who grew up under the Iron Curtain speak Russian, but won't do so; ditto Hungarians. Ukraine's memories of Russian imperialism are even fresher - they are post-USSR.
Take this to heart: "Nobody likes Russians." So said a Russian university student to me. She was trying to get home to St. Petersburg via Warsaw explaining why the LOT Airlines personnel (at JFK) were not being receptive to her attempt to get their attention when we all had to re-route after the JFK-Warsaw flight had been canceled (and yes, my wife and I received service a lot faster than she did even though we were behind her on the line). In much of Central and Eastern Europe, it's a state of mind. And Ukraine is still both a bit politically fractured AND under the thumb of the Russian bear. Americans are liked much more than Russians in Iron Curtain countries, so speaking English in Ukraine may be a better bet for getting friendly treatment.
As for Ukraine. Lviv isn't small. Most of Ukraine likely speaks some Russian, but (1) the native Russian speakers are primarily in the east, which is less developed and less interesting for tourists, and (2) you may get a lot of unhappy looks from Ukrainians if you speak too much Russian in the more, er, Orange Revolution friendly western areas (this includes Lviv). Poles who grew up under the Iron Curtain speak Russian, but won't do so; ditto Hungarians. Ukraine's memories of Russian imperialism are even fresher - they are post-USSR.
Take this to heart: "Nobody likes Russians." So said a Russian university student to me. She was trying to get home to St. Petersburg via Warsaw explaining why the LOT Airlines personnel (at JFK) were not being receptive to her attempt to get their attention when we all had to re-route after the JFK-Warsaw flight had been canceled (and yes, my wife and I received service a lot faster than she did even though we were behind her on the line). In much of Central and Eastern Europe, it's a state of mind. And Ukraine is still both a bit politically fractured AND under the thumb of the Russian bear. Americans are liked much more than Russians in Iron Curtain countries, so speaking English in Ukraine may be a better bet for getting friendly treatment.
Jun 23rd, 2011, 01:18 PM
#14
"Do you know if they still speak Russian in the smaller cities in Ukraine?"
"Take this to heart: "Nobody likes Russians." "
Words of warning! In the Crimea they ONLY speak Russian (it took me a while to figure this out - finally the woman at my hotel in Balaklava got through to me: "here we say spasiba"). Quite probably this is true in the east also. In the west I would expect only Ukrainian - up in the Carpathians I was shown a memorial to people who had been killed fighting the Soviets in the 1950s).
Language is a very touchy issue. Note that the Crimea was only made part of Ukraine by Stalin in the 50s. The Russian Black Fleet is still moored at Sevastopol.
For my TR including Ukraine see http://wilhelmswords.com/eur2006/index.html (my trip through Russia is also on that site). Pix here: http://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/Europe-2006
"Take this to heart: "Nobody likes Russians." "
Words of warning! In the Crimea they ONLY speak Russian (it took me a while to figure this out - finally the woman at my hotel in Balaklava got through to me: "here we say spasiba"). Quite probably this is true in the east also. In the west I would expect only Ukrainian - up in the Carpathians I was shown a memorial to people who had been killed fighting the Soviets in the 1950s).
Language is a very touchy issue. Note that the Crimea was only made part of Ukraine by Stalin in the 50s. The Russian Black Fleet is still moored at Sevastopol.
For my TR including Ukraine see http://wilhelmswords.com/eur2006/index.html (my trip through Russia is also on that site). Pix here: http://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/Europe-2006
Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:06 PM
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Why are you trying to force your mother to face some unpleasant memories? Do you know if anything bad happened to her there?
I am not sure if this is still valid, but recently, if you have the place of birth as any part of USSR in your American passport, you have to surrender your passport to Russians while they check if you have duplicate citizenship. If yes, you cannot enter Russia as an American.
I am not sure if this is still valid, but recently, if you have the place of birth as any part of USSR in your American passport, you have to surrender your passport to Russians while they check if you have duplicate citizenship. If yes, you cannot enter Russia as an American.
Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:20 PM
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Dayenu -- I don't think anything bad happened to her. My grandpa (her dad) thinks of Moscow & Ukraine fondly, and my mom also gets excited looking at google maps of where she used to live.
It's not that she's got bad memories - more like she was completely determined to Americanize once she came here at 14. She's proud to be American and isn't really interested in traveling anywhere. But when we do travel together (she visited me when I was living in Japan, for example) she tends to admit that it was worth it.
It's not that she's got bad memories - more like she was completely determined to Americanize once she came here at 14. She's proud to be American and isn't really interested in traveling anywhere. But when we do travel together (she visited me when I was living in Japan, for example) she tends to admit that it was worth it.
Jun 24th, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Dayenu, I do remember when the Russian government changed its regulations (I think in 2008) regarding former Soviet citizens applying for Russian visas. The regulations, still in effect, require that the visa applicant show proof of their US naturailization or thier "visa to Israel" (the latter would indicate that they renounced their citizenship; the former, not really).
I run a travel company focused on Russia and the former Soviet Union, and provide visas for people every day(including many former Soviet citiznes) and have never heard of a passport being held to check for citizenship status (ALL passports are held by the Russian consulate while visas are porcessed, not just for former Soviet citizens).
I run a travel company focused on Russia and the former Soviet Union, and provide visas for people every day(including many former Soviet citiznes) and have never heard of a passport being held to check for citizenship status (ALL passports are held by the Russian consulate while visas are porcessed, not just for former Soviet citizens).
Jun 24th, 2011, 05:59 PM
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I believe I would simply go without her. She obviously has strong feelings about Russia that are unlikely to be changed at this point.
We just got back from St Petersburg and Moscow and had a great time. Russia was much more "westernized" than I expected.
We just got back from St Petersburg and Moscow and had a great time. Russia was much more "westernized" than I expected.
