Milan or Cologne?

Old Nov 1st, 2010, 07:20 AM
  #21  
 
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We found people everywhere, but the hotel staff, to be friendly in Milan. It was also the only time we stayed in a chain hotel, which I generally try to avoid in Europe, so that might have been our problem.

Either city you choose will have good daytrips to choose from so you really can't go wrong.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 09:18 AM
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Don't worry about limited Italian. Even though I try and use my Italian when I can (to be friendly and to keep it up), I don't remember it being a necessity. Just buy a phrase book and familiarize yourself with useful terms. It is always nice to know how to say please, thank you, etc. in the language of the country you are visiting.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 10:49 AM
  #23  
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Dax, thanks for your insight on Cologne. That, along with the other great travel tips I received from Echnaton, are giving me a lot to mull over. Friends who have been to Italy many times seem to think by visiting Milan and Northern Italy I will not be seeing the "real" Italy. Perhaps I should postpone my Italian trip until I can make a comprehensive visit that includes all the "biggies." That said, I usually like to explore a country away from the typical tourist hotspots, as perverse as it sounds. As far as language goes, I generally try to speak a bit of the local language wherever I go, much to the embarrassment of my fellow travelers. And, lindy27, I realize that a few surly employees do not represent an entire nation--no offense taken.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 11:07 AM
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While I think the hotel situation in Milan deserves a lot of thought, and would probably cause me to choose Cologne, I don't think you need to postpone a first visit to Italy until you can make a "comprehensive visit that includes all the biggies." There's so much to see and experience in Italy that even one very long trip wouldn't be hugely comprehensive.

And Milan and northern Italy is real Italy, too, just a different culture, etc. than other regions of Italy.

On the style in Milan, I worried about that, too, until we stayed in Milan as part of a business trip. It's also a university town, and I saw just as many sloppily dressed college students and I saw business people in business/work clothes, and not so many glamorous people. I like Milan a lot because it's less touristy than some other more comment Italian city destinations.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 01:44 PM
  #25  
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I don't know where people think the real Italy is, for me it would be Puglia or Calabria because Tuscany, Venice, Rome, and the Amalfi coast and Cinque Terre are hypercommercialized for tourism, far from being the real Italy. The best thing about going to Italy is how much the people appreciate when you speak their language,in fact they'll speak Italian with you even if you don't. So if you decide to visit Italy, you should really learn at least some basic Italian conversation if you want to experience the real Italy regardless of where you go. I just got back from Rome and Sorrento where we had so much fun every single day and night, we met so many people and hanged out (and drank) with them till 3 am every night and started our day on espresso around 7 am ( I'm sick with a fever now from prolonged fatigue). The biggest down side was definitely the boring roman food, I would score northern Italian food a 10 but roman food 5 or less. We got a little tired of tourists traps and being cheated/ ripped off during this trip, it made us appreciate Germany. I actually appreciate Milan for being a very real Italian metropolitan with decent food choices and not overrun by tourists, it's ashamed that there is no Renaissance in Milan for you to stay in.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 02:00 PM
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It's a bit like Sarah Palin under the impression the "real" America doesn't live in New York or San Diego.

A great deal of the Italian culture that flies off the shelves in America -- from designer handbags to gorgonzola cheese and pinot grigio white wine -- is created in Northern Italy -- and MY friends in America tell me that one of the most popular recent movies about Italy was shot all around Verona, sending everybody into a swoon. (Shakespeare was really taken with the notion that northern Italy was the real Italy).

There is a stereotypical notion of Italy being all about pizza and red-sauce spaghetti, nothing but sunshine and lemons and jolly loudmouths and the rituals of the Catholic Church -- so much so, that many areas of Tuscany that really have little truck with that now have incorporated it into their local culture to attract the tourist trade. And the funny thing is, when you tell people, "Oh? You want THAT real Italy? Go to Napoli" , they shrink in fear and a million other tourist posters will race in to make sure that person is steered right back onto the Tourist Track Tuscany plus Venice plus other snapshot friendly places where no Italian is needed, all seen through the windshield of a car, or from the terrace of an apartment rental.

I don't know what kind of trip you could later take to Italy that would incorporate "all the biggies". Whose "biggies"? Do Rick Steves tourists, stampeding to le Cinque Terre, ever set foot in Mantova? Apparently the Amalfi coast is a MUST SEE BIGGIE in a lot of people's minds. Some even go back year after year! It's a beautiful vacation spot, but it is wall-to-wall foreigners clinging to a very safe and easy vacation infrastructure, the fewer surprises the better as far as they're concerned.

But I've nothing against Cologne. Never been.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 02:04 PM
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PS, Puppe:

How did it end up that you've ended up convinced that wanting to experience the reality of a foreign country, not the popular foreign tourist sights, is "perverse"? I think I know. (I actually watch people around here browbeat people who say they prefer to get off the beaten track.) But I encourage you to think again! No matter when or where you go in Italy, I hope you are coming to be in Italy. It's a wonderful place. Don't miss it while you're here! ;-)
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 02:26 PM
  #28  
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Zeppole, thanks for your mind-stretching comments. The only reason I want to experience the "real Italy" is because I have little time or money to waste. The reason I love Germany is that I have enjoyed the out-of-the-way places and the people I have met. Maybe I should apply that same theory to Italy! I'm grateful for your comments.
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 02:58 PM
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The train will limit your choices considerably.
Basically everything is out of the way, except for those few places all the tourists gather. They are few and always the same places! They are good for watching other tourists, some like that a lot.

Been to Italy a zillion times, since I was a small child. Didn't see most of the "sights" because of the tourist masses.
Didn't miss a thing!

Like pasta, hate clams, hate pasta with clams who were my most dreadful Italian experience as a small child. (Did I mention, I love pasta!) Liked the bread, the watermelons and the sun at the beach. Did you know that eating watermelons at the beach is a perfect thing to do compared to eating them inside your room (If you're a child, that is)
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 04:15 PM
  #30  
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logos999: cool...so cool...
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Old Nov 1st, 2010, 10:39 PM
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How odd for someone to think that northern Italy is not the "real" Italy. Northern Italy is our favorite part of Italy - we'd far rather be in Milan, Turin, Bergamo, the Lakes, Piemonte (Piedmont), and the Trento/Trentino than down south.

That's like saying Neuchâtel, Biel, Solothurn and Aarau aren't "really" Swiss because they're not alpine villages.
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