La Marseillaise - The World's Best Anthem?
Jul 19th, 2006, 09:11 AM
#81
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bardo1:
The lyrics of the German song include a reference to the Meuse river.
The Meuse does not flow through or enter Germany. Apparently this is a reference to the times when Germany invaded France or Belgium. (see reference below).
Meuse River
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Meuse
The Meuse (Maas) at Maastricht
Origin France
Mouth Hollands Diep
Basin countries France, Belgium, Netherlands
Length 925 km (575 mi)
Source elevation 409 m (1,342 ft)
Avg. discharge 230 m³/s (8,124 ft³/s)
Basin area 36,000 km² (13,900 mi²)
Meuse near GraveThe Meuse (Dutch & German Maas) is a major European river, rising in France and flowing through Belgium and the Netherlands before draining into the North Sea. It has a total length of 925 km (575 miles).
The Meuse rises on the Langres Plateau in France from where it flows northwards past Sedan (the head of navigation) and Charleville-Mézières into Belgium. At Namur it is joined by the River Sambre. Beyond Namur the Meuse winds eastwards, skirting the Ardennes, and passes Liège before turning north. The river then forms part of the Belgian-Dutch border, except that at Maastricht the border lies further to the west. In the Netherlands it continues northwards past Venlo, then turns towards the west, merging with the Rhine into an extensive delta. The river divides near Heusden into the Afgedamde Maas on the right and the Bergse Maas on the left. The Bergse Maas continues via the Amer, and merges with the Nieuwe Merwede to the Hollands Diep, before finally flowing into the North Sea via the Haringvliet.
The lyrics of the German song include a reference to the Meuse river.
The Meuse does not flow through or enter Germany. Apparently this is a reference to the times when Germany invaded France or Belgium. (see reference below).
Meuse River
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Meuse
The Meuse (Maas) at Maastricht
Origin France
Mouth Hollands Diep
Basin countries France, Belgium, Netherlands
Length 925 km (575 mi)
Source elevation 409 m (1,342 ft)
Avg. discharge 230 m³/s (8,124 ft³/s)
Basin area 36,000 km² (13,900 mi²)
Meuse near GraveThe Meuse (Dutch & German Maas) is a major European river, rising in France and flowing through Belgium and the Netherlands before draining into the North Sea. It has a total length of 925 km (575 miles).
The Meuse rises on the Langres Plateau in France from where it flows northwards past Sedan (the head of navigation) and Charleville-Mézières into Belgium. At Namur it is joined by the River Sambre. Beyond Namur the Meuse winds eastwards, skirting the Ardennes, and passes Liège before turning north. The river then forms part of the Belgian-Dutch border, except that at Maastricht the border lies further to the west. In the Netherlands it continues northwards past Venlo, then turns towards the west, merging with the Rhine into an extensive delta. The river divides near Heusden into the Afgedamde Maas on the right and the Bergse Maas on the left. The Bergse Maas continues via the Amer, and merges with the Nieuwe Merwede to the Hollands Diep, before finally flowing into the North Sea via the Haringvliet.
Jul 19th, 2006, 09:13 AM
#82
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Sheila, I'm another fan of "Freedom Come All Ye." I must admit it's not just for the song's sentiments, much as I agree with them, but also because back in the day I had the great pleasure of having Hamish Henderson as an instructor at the School of Scottish Studies. And wouldn't it be cool to say "I knew the man who wrote the national anthem"?
Jul 19th, 2006, 09:40 AM
#84
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>The lyrics of the German song include a reference to the Meuse river.
The Meuse does not flow through or enter Germany. Apparently this is a reference to the times when Germany invaded France or Belgium. (see reference below).
Nonsense. This is simply wrong. Please tell me, how often did Germany invade France or Belgium in the time before the anthem was written? (At this point Belgium has existed for about 10-15 years, so they didn't have a lot of time.) And how often was Germany invaded by France before that time?
If you have a closer look these lines (Memel river, Meuse/Maas, Adige/Etsch, etc.) define the German language area. And of this area a lot has been lost now. But it wasn't then.
Have a look at the Italy forum. All those rantings about "Val Gardena", "Castelrotto", "Brunico" etc. The places are actually called Grödnertal, Kastelruth, Bruneck... except that Italians got an idea around 1900 that the "natural border" of Italy is the Alps' main chain, and everything south of it had to be turned italian. That's why the area is called "Alto Adige" now.
Note: there is more to German history (and Austrian, which only stopped considering itself German in the late 19th century) that WW2.
The Meuse does not flow through or enter Germany. Apparently this is a reference to the times when Germany invaded France or Belgium. (see reference below).
Nonsense. This is simply wrong. Please tell me, how often did Germany invade France or Belgium in the time before the anthem was written? (At this point Belgium has existed for about 10-15 years, so they didn't have a lot of time.) And how often was Germany invaded by France before that time?
If you have a closer look these lines (Memel river, Meuse/Maas, Adige/Etsch, etc.) define the German language area. And of this area a lot has been lost now. But it wasn't then.
Have a look at the Italy forum. All those rantings about "Val Gardena", "Castelrotto", "Brunico" etc. The places are actually called Grödnertal, Kastelruth, Bruneck... except that Italians got an idea around 1900 that the "natural border" of Italy is the Alps' main chain, and everything south of it had to be turned italian. That's why the area is called "Alto Adige" now.
Note: there is more to German history (and Austrian, which only stopped considering itself German in the late 19th century) that WW2.
Jul 19th, 2006, 11:35 AM
#85
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<<there is more to German history (and Austrian, which only stopped considering itself German in the late 19th century) that WW2.>>
Indeed there is. Austria may have stopped considering itself German in the late 19th Century, but from 1938 to 1945, popular sentiment was strongly in favour of the Anschluss with Germany, and in fact, had not the Treaty of St. Germain prevented it, Austria would have become part of Grossdeutschland in 1918.
Indeed there is. Austria may have stopped considering itself German in the late 19th Century, but from 1938 to 1945, popular sentiment was strongly in favour of the Anschluss with Germany, and in fact, had not the Treaty of St. Germain prevented it, Austria would have become part of Grossdeutschland in 1918.
Jul 19th, 2006, 12:33 PM
#86
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KT
I had the ineffable pleasure of attending the opening sessions of the Constitutional Convention which required the establishment of our Parliament, and, more improtantly the launch of the Report to the Scottish People (I'd given up politics by the time the Parliament sat), and at the latter the Freedom Come all ye was sung. I was heartened by the many great and good who knew it.
I had the ineffable pleasure of attending the opening sessions of the Constitutional Convention which required the establishment of our Parliament, and, more improtantly the launch of the Report to the Scottish People (I'd given up politics by the time the Parliament sat), and at the latter the Freedom Come all ye was sung. I was heartened by the many great and good who knew it.
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Jul 20th, 2005 08:00 AM
