La Marseillaise - The World's Best Anthem?
Jul 18th, 2006, 11:30 PM
#61
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Actually, Flower of Scotland is another bleeding' lament, and whilst I like the song, and subscribe to Craigellachie's views on GSTQ, I too don't like it much as an anthem.
And, if you lot'd stop USING our oil without paying for it, we wouldn't NEED to look for any more
Joking apart, I'm a huge fan of the "Freedom Come All Ye" for Scotland, but I fear it's unsingable by masses.
And I also fear that the bit in the middle of the Italian anthem which sounds like "The Bear went over the Mountain" rules it off my list
And, if you lot'd stop USING our oil without paying for it, we wouldn't NEED to look for any more
Joking apart, I'm a huge fan of the "Freedom Come All Ye" for Scotland, but I fear it's unsingable by masses.
And I also fear that the bit in the middle of the Italian anthem which sounds like "The Bear went over the Mountain" rules it off my list
Jul 19th, 2006, 03:51 AM
#63
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How about the Czech national anthem -
Where is my homeland?
Where is my homeland, where is my homeland?
Waters murmur through the meadows,
forests rustle all over the rocky hills,
spring blossoms glitter in the orchards,
paradise on earth to look at!
This is a beautiful country,
the Czech country, my homeland,
the Czech country, my homeland!
Where is my homeland?
Where is my homeland, where is my homeland?
Waters murmur through the meadows,
forests rustle all over the rocky hills,
spring blossoms glitter in the orchards,
paradise on earth to look at!
This is a beautiful country,
the Czech country, my homeland,
the Czech country, my homeland!
Jul 19th, 2006, 04:09 AM
#64
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Yes, the Czech national anthem is beautiful, like the Hungarian one, but an equally rather sad and regretful sound.
The Dutch and Danish anthems are quite rousing, at least in their tunes.
But it's a very difficult job to write a tune that non-singers can both recognise and sing, and with words that enthuse the right people without over-enthusing the wrong people. I believe Russia still can't settle on words, having decided to go back to the old Soviet tune.
So GSTQ has something going for it (and the bit about "rebellious Scots" has nothing to do with its incarnation as the National Anthem). The possible (known) alternatives all have their problems: Jerusalem - England only, Land of Hope and Glory - too imperialist, I Vow to Thee My Country - tune goes too high, words a bit too "my country, right or wrong" for modern tastes.
The Dutch and Danish anthems are quite rousing, at least in their tunes.
But it's a very difficult job to write a tune that non-singers can both recognise and sing, and with words that enthuse the right people without over-enthusing the wrong people. I believe Russia still can't settle on words, having decided to go back to the old Soviet tune.
So GSTQ has something going for it (and the bit about "rebellious Scots" has nothing to do with its incarnation as the National Anthem). The possible (known) alternatives all have their problems: Jerusalem - England only, Land of Hope and Glory - too imperialist, I Vow to Thee My Country - tune goes too high, words a bit too "my country, right or wrong" for modern tastes.
Jul 19th, 2006, 04:37 AM
#66
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Hal8999, there are a lot of men since the French Revolution like Robespierre who "straightened things out." Unfortunately, most were monsters- Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao etc., etc...........
As for a fine American song, I like Woody Guthrie's This Land is My Land.
As for a fine American song, I like Woody Guthrie's This Land is My Land.
Jul 19th, 2006, 04:47 AM
#67
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The very stirring Russian anthem (even without any battle references):
http://www.du.edu/langlit/russian/anthtxt.html
http://www.du.edu/langlit/russian/anthtxt.html
Jul 19th, 2006, 04:52 AM
#68
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<<I believe Russia still can't settle on words, having decided to go back to the old Soviet tune>>
Russia couldn't settle on words to the Glinka anthem "The Patriotic Song" which was used during the 1990's. However, when the old Soviet anthem was restored in 2000, it was with new words by the original lyricist, Sergei Mikhalkov. One translation is:
Russia, our holy country!
Russia, our beloved country!
A mighty will, a great glory,
Are your inheritance for all time!
REFRAIN:
Be glorious, our free Fatherland!
Eternal union of fraternal peoples,
Common wisdom given by our forebears,
Be glorious, our country! We are proud of you!
From the southern seas to the polar region
Spread our forests and fields.
You are unique in the world, inimitable,
Native land protected by God!
Wide spaces for dreams and for living
Are opened for us by the coming years
Faithfulness to our country gives us strength
Thus it was, so it is and always will be!
Russia couldn't settle on words to the Glinka anthem "The Patriotic Song" which was used during the 1990's. However, when the old Soviet anthem was restored in 2000, it was with new words by the original lyricist, Sergei Mikhalkov. One translation is:
Russia, our holy country!
Russia, our beloved country!
A mighty will, a great glory,
Are your inheritance for all time!
REFRAIN:
Be glorious, our free Fatherland!
Eternal union of fraternal peoples,
Common wisdom given by our forebears,
Be glorious, our country! We are proud of you!
From the southern seas to the polar region
Spread our forests and fields.
You are unique in the world, inimitable,
Native land protected by God!
Wide spaces for dreams and for living
Are opened for us by the coming years
Faithfulness to our country gives us strength
Thus it was, so it is and always will be!
Jul 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM
#69
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Give me the Italian National Anthem any day! It's zippy, fun and bouncy.
The Flower of Scotland gets my vote as a more serious Anthem. Come to think of it when it comes to Anthems there's not much competition. As for the Northern Europen Countries and UK ug! must have something to do with the cold.
The Flower of Scotland gets my vote as a more serious Anthem. Come to think of it when it comes to Anthems there's not much competition. As for the Northern Europen Countries and UK ug! must have something to do with the cold.
Jul 19th, 2006, 05:17 AM
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To Sheila and Mucky, I think I've got a solution to our Disunited Kingdom anthem problem! May I humbly submit for consideration an alternative, to be sung to the tune of "GSTQ":
What an ingenious flag -
One does so like to wag
It on the odd occasion!
Some call the Union bad,
And a monarch (in this day and age) quite mad,
But aesthetically at least I think can we agree it would be just a little bit sad
To unstitch such an ingenious flag.
How about we open up the discussion to FLAGS. What flags do you all like? And what symbology?
HSV, I'm curious: you know how France's red, white and blue are said to symbolise liberty, sacrifice, etc (Hmm, I'm NOT sure I do know what they symbolise. Anyone?), watching the World Cup and remarking how Germany seems to have collectively pitched the perfect example of what modern patriotism should be, what with all the flags on show it set me to wondering: what do the colours and configuration of the German flag represent? Black, and gold are quite unusual colours in a flag, I think.
What an ingenious flag -
One does so like to wag
It on the odd occasion!
Some call the Union bad,
And a monarch (in this day and age) quite mad,
But aesthetically at least I think can we agree it would be just a little bit sad
To unstitch such an ingenious flag.
How about we open up the discussion to FLAGS. What flags do you all like? And what symbology?
HSV, I'm curious: you know how France's red, white and blue are said to symbolise liberty, sacrifice, etc (Hmm, I'm NOT sure I do know what they symbolise. Anyone?), watching the World Cup and remarking how Germany seems to have collectively pitched the perfect example of what modern patriotism should be, what with all the flags on show it set me to wondering: what do the colours and configuration of the German flag represent? Black, and gold are quite unusual colours in a flag, I think.
Jul 19th, 2006, 05:36 AM
#71
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The black/red gold/ tricolor had its origins in the 19th century, and was used as the flag of the German Confederation from 1848-1852, and by the Weimar Republic in the 1920's and early 1930s.
For an interesting discussion of the origin and significance of these colours, see:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/de_color.html
For an interesting discussion of the origin and significance of these colours, see:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/de_color.html
Jul 19th, 2006, 06:28 AM
#74
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UK National Anthem?
I'm confused about whether or not there is a UK national anthem - it seems from comments here that there is not one consenual one - perhaps God Save the Queen is the English one?
Is there one and what anthem do the Brits use at Olympics or football matches.
If God Save the Queen (or King) is the national anthem than why is it allowed to have the disparinging Scottish verse included in it?
I'm confused about whether or not there is a UK national anthem - it seems from comments here that there is not one consenual one - perhaps God Save the Queen is the English one?
Is there one and what anthem do the Brits use at Olympics or football matches.
If God Save the Queen (or King) is the national anthem than why is it allowed to have the disparinging Scottish verse included in it?
Jul 19th, 2006, 06:35 AM
#75
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I'm surprised that none of you has mentioned the fact that the Star Spangled Banner's music actually is set to the tune of "To Anacreon in Heaven," a popular British drinking-song. So between that and My Country 'Tis of Thee, we apparently have good lyricists, but lack composers 
.
And I thought this was interesting: "...Like the British national anthem "God Save the Queen," "The Star-Spangled Banner" is one of the few national anthems of the world without a country's name mentioned in the lyrics".
.And I thought this was interesting: "...Like the British national anthem "God Save the Queen," "The Star-Spangled Banner" is one of the few national anthems of the world without a country's name mentioned in the lyrics".
Jul 19th, 2006, 07:03 AM
#76
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I've always tried to imagine a bunch of soused Brits trying to manage the twelve-tone range of <i>To Anacreon in Heaven</i>. Must be comical.
And whose idea was it to set Key's poem to it, anyway? We were at WAR with Britain at the time. Seems odd to co-opt the enemy's tune, no?
And whose idea was it to set Key's poem to it, anyway? We were at WAR with Britain at the time. Seems odd to co-opt the enemy's tune, no?
Jul 19th, 2006, 07:07 AM
#77
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At opening ceremonies of the highland games that we attend in North America, three official national anthems are typically sung: The Star Spangled Banner, O Canada, and God Save the Queen (one verse only!). These are nearly always followed by Flower of Scotland (all the verses). Makes for an interesting juxtaposition - and a lot of singing.
I'm still chuckling over your comment, Preternat.
I'm still chuckling over your comment, Preternat.
Jul 19th, 2006, 07:25 AM
#78
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Just to answer Robespierre's question, the use of "Aenecron in Heaven" for the tune for the "Star Spangled Banner" began almost immediately. Sheets with the words were circulating in Baltimore within weeks of its composition, with the notation that it can be sung to that tune. Who noticed that fact and whether Key wrote it that way, are facts lost to history.
Jul 19th, 2006, 08:44 AM
#79
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PalQ asked:
If God Save the Queen (or King) is the national anthem than why is it allowed to have the disparinging Scottish verse included in it?
to which the answers are
(a) it is, but when the different countries are playing as separate national teams (England, Scotland, Wales, etc), then each has its own tune, established by unofficial custom in most cases and/or by the suits and blazers in charge of the relevant sporting organisation - hence, no contest in Wales (as far as I know), mostly Jerusalem for England, and I shouldn't be surprised if there haven't been bitter behind the scenes rows and no-speaks in Scotland.
(b) it isn't included: when the song was first written it was all about defeating the 1745 rebellion (which for all the Young Pretender's ambitions was primarily experienced as a Scottish civil war), and goes on for umpteen bloodthirsty verses - but as a National Anthem for the United Kingdom, only two verses praying for the monarch are used.
If God Save the Queen (or King) is the national anthem than why is it allowed to have the disparinging Scottish verse included in it?
to which the answers are
(a) it is, but when the different countries are playing as separate national teams (England, Scotland, Wales, etc), then each has its own tune, established by unofficial custom in most cases and/or by the suits and blazers in charge of the relevant sporting organisation - hence, no contest in Wales (as far as I know), mostly Jerusalem for England, and I shouldn't be surprised if there haven't been bitter behind the scenes rows and no-speaks in Scotland.
(b) it isn't included: when the song was first written it was all about defeating the 1745 rebellion (which for all the Young Pretender's ambitions was primarily experienced as a Scottish civil war), and goes on for umpteen bloodthirsty verses - but as a National Anthem for the United Kingdom, only two verses praying for the monarch are used.
Jul 19th, 2006, 09:03 AM
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<<"...Like the British national anthem "God Save the Queen," "The Star-Spangled Banner" is one of the few national anthems of the world without a country's name mentioned in the lyrics".>>
I think that there are more than a few. Off the bat I can think of La Marseillaise, Wilhelmus (Netherlands), Hatikvah (Israel) and the Spanish national anthem, which has no lyrics at all.
I think that there are more than a few. Off the bat I can think of La Marseillaise, Wilhelmus (Netherlands), Hatikvah (Israel) and the Spanish national anthem, which has no lyrics at all.
