Jungfrau-bookings & Footwear in the snow
May 8th, 2006, 05:39 PM
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Jungfrau-bookings & Footwear in the snow
Ok, I've held off asking this question because I'm probably one of the few people in the world that doesn't know the answer(we live in Queensland, Australia-not a lot of snow).
What will I need to put on my feet to keep them dry & warm when I visit the Jungfrau area? To complicate this query a little, we (family of 5)are travelling for 5 weeks in June/July and are carrying only small backpacks- so space is tight. If the weather is truly awful we may not even go up the mountain ( we only have 1 day where it's an option). BTW Do we run the risk of missing out on this much anticipated ascent, if others book in advance?
So from Scotland country walks in June to Rome in July, with Swiss snow in the middle, what do we put on our feet? I had thought that perhaps waterproofing our sports shoes and adding a pair of gaiters to keep snow out of the shoe could be an option. Please no fashion comments, just trying to work out if I can/need to buy/hire something just for this maybe.
What will I need to put on my feet to keep them dry & warm when I visit the Jungfrau area? To complicate this query a little, we (family of 5)are travelling for 5 weeks in June/July and are carrying only small backpacks- so space is tight. If the weather is truly awful we may not even go up the mountain ( we only have 1 day where it's an option). BTW Do we run the risk of missing out on this much anticipated ascent, if others book in advance?
So from Scotland country walks in June to Rome in July, with Swiss snow in the middle, what do we put on our feet? I had thought that perhaps waterproofing our sports shoes and adding a pair of gaiters to keep snow out of the shoe could be an option. Please no fashion comments, just trying to work out if I can/need to buy/hire something just for this maybe.
May 8th, 2006, 06:34 PM
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Hi, I'm also from Qld so I know where you are coming from. I experienced snow for the first time last year on a ski trip in Victoria - and lets just say I'll be better prepared this year!
Your main criteria will be warmth and how good the grip of the shoe is. Maybe others can comment on boot/jacket hire etc.
In your situation (family, packing light and not even sure if you will make it) I think well waterproofed sports shoes will be ok, as long as they have a good hardy tread and you can wear say a thin and a thick wool sock with the shoe (better insulation from cold - and pack a spare pair in case they get wet). Don't forget gloves, beanie and scarf - invaluable to trap warmth!
You will also want to layer your clothes (several thin layers are warmer than just a heavy sweater - which would take up too much room anyway), including bottoms. Thermal pants (or thin, close fitting lycra style pants are a cheaper option and just as good - and pack small) under jeans would be fine (I was warm like that at night during snow fall, and I feel the cold).
Hope that helps. Anyone else - particularly regarding booking in advance?
Your main criteria will be warmth and how good the grip of the shoe is. Maybe others can comment on boot/jacket hire etc.
In your situation (family, packing light and not even sure if you will make it) I think well waterproofed sports shoes will be ok, as long as they have a good hardy tread and you can wear say a thin and a thick wool sock with the shoe (better insulation from cold - and pack a spare pair in case they get wet). Don't forget gloves, beanie and scarf - invaluable to trap warmth!
You will also want to layer your clothes (several thin layers are warmer than just a heavy sweater - which would take up too much room anyway), including bottoms. Thermal pants (or thin, close fitting lycra style pants are a cheaper option and just as good - and pack small) under jeans would be fine (I was warm like that at night during snow fall, and I feel the cold).
Hope that helps. Anyone else - particularly regarding booking in advance?
May 8th, 2006, 07:25 PM
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Hi, we are from the north of New Zealand and don't see snow either and did a very similar trip to you a couple of years ago. We were based in Interlaken for 3 days, checked the weather forecast when we arrived, fortunately it looked pretty settled so we booked just one day in advance.
We didn't buy, take or hire any special clothing we just layered, tee-shirt, warm jersey and waterproof jacket, jeans and sports shoes with warm socks and we were fine. I do agree about the sole of sports shoes, the grip wasn't that good and I did slide about a bit but nothing too serious. The area to wander around outside is fairly limited, there are ropes to hang onto incase of slipping, the snow was very compacted so we didn't even get wet feet.
Hope this helps.
We didn't buy, take or hire any special clothing we just layered, tee-shirt, warm jersey and waterproof jacket, jeans and sports shoes with warm socks and we were fine. I do agree about the sole of sports shoes, the grip wasn't that good and I did slide about a bit but nothing too serious. The area to wander around outside is fairly limited, there are ropes to hang onto incase of slipping, the snow was very compacted so we didn't even get wet feet.
Hope this helps.
May 8th, 2006, 07:59 PM
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The weather in many of the places you are going is very changeable, from cool and rainy to warm and even hot. You need to be prepared for potentially big temperature variations throughout the day, esp as you go up and down mountains. As mentioned above, layers work best. A long sleeve cotton t shirt, then a cotton or wool sweater, then a lined windbreaker or raincoat would be good for Scotland, most of Switzerland and most likely London. A good pair of heavy socks and a thinner pair of liner socks is usually a good way to keep feet warm in mountain areas. If you want to spend any appreciable time on mountain tops, gloves and a hat might be very welcome. There is always snow on top of the Jungfrau; and while you may not do much walking up there, you may want to stay out and walk around the top areas and take photos or a dogsled ride, and being properly dressed helps a lot.
I think with enough layers (perhaps two t shirts and a sweater, a wool sweater versus a cotton one, a wool sweater could be useful in Scotland, that's where Shetland is from!) and a lined windbreaker or raincoat, no heavy winter jacket would be necessary for the top of the Jungfrau unless you are planning a long days hike. If you are planning on doing walks lower down in the Murren and Wengen area, IMO in June and July with the above-mentioned layers and good footwear and socks you should be fine. (I also like gloves personally even in June.) You may even get a warm day and then you take some of the layers off. None of these are particularly heavy to pack, but do take up some room. An umbrella is very necessary for Scotland, Switzerland and London.
Although you are each carrying a small backpack, with 5 people there is no reason why you could not also bring one or two canvas duffle bags and then two of you could carry them between you on and off trains. With two people swinging the straps of duffle bags between them, this are light and very easy to carry, even with shoes inside. As you are paying for the checked luggage on the flight anyway, you may as well check some extra pieces and have the various clothing you need.
If you have good hiking boots, I would suggest bringing them, you will appreciate them in the mountains of Switzerland and walking in Scotland. You can wear them on the plane, and they won't take up room in the backpacks; if you bring extra duffle bags, they can fit in there. Hiking trails in Switzerland are generally loose gravel, so sneakers don't' have the same gripping power; although I have heard comments on this site that gaiters with sneakers are a good alternative, so if you don't have good hiking boots, then that might work.
As for reservations on the Jungfraubahn, I have never made them on all my trips up the Jungfrau, which have all been in the summer months (about 6 so far – I used to live in Zurich and this was a popular destination for friends and relatives). My question would be, can you exchange them for another day? If yes, then go ahead. If not, then I would say it is not worth the risk of getting a bad weather day and having paid a lot of money for tickets you don't want to or even can't use. For the most part in my experience starting this journey from Wengen several times, because of the weather issues, most people do NOT book ahead of time. They wait and see how clear the day looks. The majority of bookings seem to be made by tour groups, who are committed to going on the day set by the tour. Those tours tend to arrive into the valley for half day trips up the Jungfrau at about the same time, i.e. they tend to arrive at Wengen in streams between 9 and 10 am. This means they will arrive into Lauterbrunnen to get the first part of the Jungfrau train after 8:30 am. I think from your other posts that you are staying in Murren. If that is the case, then if you could get down to Lauterbrunnen to get the train up to the Jungfrau before that, I don't think you would have any issue getting seats on a train. (You could go up later, but it tends to get cloudy later in the day, so it is better go earlier, esp if it is clear; if it is really overcast I am not sure I would risk it, it may not "clear up" later.)
From Murren of course you could take the cable car up the Schiltorn rather than having to go down to Lauterbrunnen and take the trains up the Jungfrau. This would be easier for you and involve a less early start. The cable cars are less crowded, as I recall the price is about half that of the train, and the view is really about just as spectacular. It is also just as cold.
I think with enough layers (perhaps two t shirts and a sweater, a wool sweater versus a cotton one, a wool sweater could be useful in Scotland, that's where Shetland is from!) and a lined windbreaker or raincoat, no heavy winter jacket would be necessary for the top of the Jungfrau unless you are planning a long days hike. If you are planning on doing walks lower down in the Murren and Wengen area, IMO in June and July with the above-mentioned layers and good footwear and socks you should be fine. (I also like gloves personally even in June.) You may even get a warm day and then you take some of the layers off. None of these are particularly heavy to pack, but do take up some room. An umbrella is very necessary for Scotland, Switzerland and London.
Although you are each carrying a small backpack, with 5 people there is no reason why you could not also bring one or two canvas duffle bags and then two of you could carry them between you on and off trains. With two people swinging the straps of duffle bags between them, this are light and very easy to carry, even with shoes inside. As you are paying for the checked luggage on the flight anyway, you may as well check some extra pieces and have the various clothing you need.
If you have good hiking boots, I would suggest bringing them, you will appreciate them in the mountains of Switzerland and walking in Scotland. You can wear them on the plane, and they won't take up room in the backpacks; if you bring extra duffle bags, they can fit in there. Hiking trails in Switzerland are generally loose gravel, so sneakers don't' have the same gripping power; although I have heard comments on this site that gaiters with sneakers are a good alternative, so if you don't have good hiking boots, then that might work.
As for reservations on the Jungfraubahn, I have never made them on all my trips up the Jungfrau, which have all been in the summer months (about 6 so far – I used to live in Zurich and this was a popular destination for friends and relatives). My question would be, can you exchange them for another day? If yes, then go ahead. If not, then I would say it is not worth the risk of getting a bad weather day and having paid a lot of money for tickets you don't want to or even can't use. For the most part in my experience starting this journey from Wengen several times, because of the weather issues, most people do NOT book ahead of time. They wait and see how clear the day looks. The majority of bookings seem to be made by tour groups, who are committed to going on the day set by the tour. Those tours tend to arrive into the valley for half day trips up the Jungfrau at about the same time, i.e. they tend to arrive at Wengen in streams between 9 and 10 am. This means they will arrive into Lauterbrunnen to get the first part of the Jungfrau train after 8:30 am. I think from your other posts that you are staying in Murren. If that is the case, then if you could get down to Lauterbrunnen to get the train up to the Jungfrau before that, I don't think you would have any issue getting seats on a train. (You could go up later, but it tends to get cloudy later in the day, so it is better go earlier, esp if it is clear; if it is really overcast I am not sure I would risk it, it may not "clear up" later.)
From Murren of course you could take the cable car up the Schiltorn rather than having to go down to Lauterbrunnen and take the trains up the Jungfrau. This would be easier for you and involve a less early start. The cable cars are less crowded, as I recall the price is about half that of the train, and the view is really about just as spectacular. It is also just as cold.
May 9th, 2006, 08:45 AM
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> My question would be, can you exchange them for another day?
Since no reservations are possible on the Jungfraubahn, the question of buying in advance and so on is moot in my eyes. Just allow yourself 20 extra minutes in the morning to buy your tickets.
Since no reservations are possible on the Jungfraubahn, the question of buying in advance and so on is moot in my eyes. Just allow yourself 20 extra minutes in the morning to buy your tickets.
May 9th, 2006, 11:17 AM
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You're talking June/July. This is the summer.
To go to europe you should have 2 pairs of good walking shoes (since if one gets wet you usually can;t wear it the next day). Assuming the only snow you'll deal with at the top of the Jungfrau - and much of what you see is indoors - and the snow outdoors is pretty well packed into trails - not deep pure snow - those shoes will be fine.
You don;t need any sort of winter gear unless you're planing on skiing. Just to tour around you simply layer on the way up and de-layer on the way down (tee shirt, long-sleeve shirt, sweater and jacket (jean jacket or whatever light jacket you're bringing). There is snow up there - but it's not the North Pole and air temps are moderate for reasonable periods of time.
To go to europe you should have 2 pairs of good walking shoes (since if one gets wet you usually can;t wear it the next day). Assuming the only snow you'll deal with at the top of the Jungfrau - and much of what you see is indoors - and the snow outdoors is pretty well packed into trails - not deep pure snow - those shoes will be fine.
You don;t need any sort of winter gear unless you're planing on skiing. Just to tour around you simply layer on the way up and de-layer on the way down (tee shirt, long-sleeve shirt, sweater and jacket (jean jacket or whatever light jacket you're bringing). There is snow up there - but it's not the North Pole and air temps are moderate for reasonable periods of time.
May 14th, 2006, 04:43 AM
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Once again thanks to all who took the time and effort to reply to my questions. Cicerone, we actually decided to stay in Lauterbrunnen because there are some potential transport issues with Murren. Because we have limited time (just 3 days to go from Paris to Italy via Switzerland) I took a punt each way, which means Lauterbrunnen allows the snow experience (weather permitting) or if the weather isn't favourable we can head down the mountain. I had intended trying for the first train of the day- seems like that is good option. Venetian, Patricia, Cicerone and Nytraveller your advice on footwear and clothes is a reasonable tie in with my 'plan A' option which I had concerns might be inadequate for a comfortable experience in Switzerland and Scotland in particular. Will definitely stick with 2 pair of walking shoes (unfortunately my old hiking boots are pre children so no longer fit)and the 2pair of socks- not something I had thought of. I hadn't appreciated that compacted snow isn't soft/ slushy so some grip on the shoe is probably more relevant than being totally waterproof.
Thank you altomiro for the tip re the Jungfraubahn- we have Swiss passes so only need to purchase this last part of the journey.
Thank you altomiro for the tip re the Jungfraubahn- we have Swiss passes so only need to purchase this last part of the journey.
