Nikki

"Just because you are against terror, the taking of innocent life, and support free speech, doesnt mean you have to embrace the lewd, crude, despicable organization called Charlie Hebdo"

Yes, actually I believe it does. Even if Charlie Hebdo were lewd, crude, and despicable, if it doesn't have the right to publish what it does, then I don't have the right to write what I want to say either.

FrankS

Not true Nikki
France has hate speech laws. There are all kinds of speech content that is criminalized in France. Muslims attempted to block Hebdo with existing laws, Hebdo won in hypocritical court....Now Hebdo cartoonists are dead doing what they loved...putting out crude cartoons...I just feel bad for others who died for their depravity


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France

kerouac

In the last 20 years, there have been 15 court cases against Charlie Hebdo. 14 of them were filed by right wing catholics and one by Muslim fundamentalists.

annhig

FrankS - you have an unusual idea of what constitutes depravity. Perhaps what you are really against is people who poke fun at religion - and goodness only knows many religions and their followers ask for just that.

What right do YOU have to criticise the French court for being hypocritical? Their country, their laws. Was it not Voltaire who said "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"?.

I feel desperately sorry for all those who have died and their families - there should be no hierarchy of the deserving and undeserving dead.

Judy

Very well stated, annhig.

IMDonehere

Those people who think that the Interview never should have been made or that Charlie Hebdo was outrageous are basically would be censors, who are afraid of something, that only they can reveal.

The people who compare Fodor's to anything but Trip Advisor and Slow Travel need to get out more.

PalenQ

I'm happy to be Charlie too, but i wish that I thought that it would do any good.>

Yes sadly the outpourring of approbation may be exactly what the perpetrators want - still though we must stand up for free speech free from threats.

annhig

Actually, Pal, I have revised my opinion about that, after all the protests across Europe last night.

Many moslems in the UK and I'm sure in France] have been expressing their revulsion at what happened in Paris and even a Vice president of the French National front was on BBC news last night saying that there should be no backlash against Moslems.

so to that extent, they have not beaten us.

Pepper_von_snoot

Silence = Death

You will not silence me.



Thin

thursdaysd

@annhig - +1 - very well said.

If the right to free speech only encompasses speech that doesn't offend someone it is no right.

FrankS

If the right to free speech only encompasses speech that doesn't offend someone it is no right<<


How ignorant of hate speech laws are you thursday?

From wiki
""The hate speech laws in France are matters of both civil law and criminal law. Those laws protect individuals and groups from being defamed or insulted because they belong or do not belong, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or because they have a handicap. The laws forbid any communication which is intended to incite discrimination against, hatred of, or harm to, anyone because of his belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or because he or she has a handicap.""

PegS

Well said, Annhig. I can't begin to imagine how the families must be feeling.

I also don't get how anyone thinks censorship isn't an issue that strikes at the heart of our deepest values.

historytraveler

Agree annhig, pepper & thursdaysd. Je suis Charlie

menachem

I realized yesterday that the muslim community is a target too. Of course these terrorists are not reacting to the cartoons: this is all cynically geared to organize such a backlash against muslims that IS et at will have no trouble recruiting.

I think the reverse will be true.

apersuader65

<Now Hebdo cartoonists are dead doing what they loved...putting out crude cartoons...I just feel bad for others who died for their depravity>

Whose depravity are you speaking of? The depravity of executing 10, wounding 13 others inside, and executing 2 more outside, or those who drew silly pictures?

I would agree there is depravity here, but not associated with the magazine, because if Hebdo is "depraved", then the above quoted statements can be considered "depraved".

RM67

I don't agree that cartoons that mock religion or fanatics who associate themselves with a religion are necessarily discriminatory or inciting hate or prejudice. As such it's not a forgone conclusion that they break the French laws on hate speech. Someone might try to argue that or even prosecute in a court of law but it doesn't automatically follow that they are right or that they will win such a case. Subjectively feeling offended is not the same as actually being persecuted or discriminated against.

FrankS

Welcome to the culture gap RM (rolling eyes}

Caliban

I am Charlie.

I am NOT FrankS.

The punishment for silly cartoons is not death to you and all around you.

PalenQ

I am Not FrankS and the American Taliban he supports!

Je suis Charlie!

IMDonehere

I get all my legal advice from Wikipedia as well.
_____

For all you Je suis Charlies. Here is a list of 62 organizations that have fought for freedom of expression before yesterday. And no, I am not familiar with all of them, and yes, I have been a member of some of them.

ACCESS
Alliance for Women in Media
American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression
American Civil Liberties Union
American Library Association
The Banyan Project
Brave New Films
Center for Democracy and Technology
ColorOfChange.org
The Committee to Protect Journalists
Common Cause
Communications Workers of America
CREDO Action
CultureStrike
Defending Dissent Foundation
Digital Media Law Project
Electronic Frontier Foundation
Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
Freedom of the Press Foundation
Georgia First Amendment Foundation
IndyMedia
Investigative News Network
iSolon.org
Katy's Exposure Blog
Knowledge Ecology International
LAMP: Learning About Multimedia Project
Media Alliance
The Media Consortium
Media Mobilizing Project
Mine Safety and Health News
MuckRock
National Alliance for Media Arts and Culture
National Association of Black Journalists
National Coalition Against Censorship
National Federation of Community Broadcasters
National Freedom of Information Coalition
National Hispanic Media Coalition
National Priorities Project
Native Public Media
The Newspaper Guild-CWA
OpenTheGovernment.org
Park Center for Independent Media
Participatory Politics Foundation
PEN American Center
Personal Democracy Media
Project Censored
Project On Government Oversight
Prometheus Radio Project
Public Record Media
RootsAction.org
Society of Professional Journalists
Sunlight Foundation
Tully Center for Free Speech at Syracuse University
United Republic
TheUptake.org
Utah Foundation for Open Government
Washington Civil Rights Council
Women In Media & News
Women, Action & the Media
Women's Media Center
WRFN, Radio Free Nashville
Writers Guild of America, East