Je suis Charlie
Jan 8th, 2015, 08:53 AM
#61
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ditto, Caliban, Pal et al!
And btw (and at the risk of being chided for digression again), as a flaming liberal I do not support laws against "hate speech". I am as politically correct as they come, but again, I do not defend the right not to be offended, and I do no believe that even "depraved" speech should be censored.
And btw (and at the risk of being chided for digression again), as a flaming liberal I do not support laws against "hate speech". I am as politically correct as they come, but again, I do not defend the right not to be offended, and I do no believe that even "depraved" speech should be censored.
Jan 8th, 2015, 09:01 AM
#62
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as a flaming liberal I do not support laws against "hate speech".<<
Bingo! You are a hypocrite. And it was this hypocritical system that encouraged these deaths
You have certain speech which you want protected, and there is other speech dont want. Now here is the grind for me....If a KKK granddragon was killed by terrorists for his speech, would people call themselves Je Suis KKK?? Of course not
You want sick perverted speech protected, as long as it is politically correct/ And you are willing to call yourself a lewd charlie...which I find quite amusing because of the depravity & hypocrisy needed to do so
Bingo! You are a hypocrite. And it was this hypocritical system that encouraged these deaths
You have certain speech which you want protected, and there is other speech dont want. Now here is the grind for me....If a KKK granddragon was killed by terrorists for his speech, would people call themselves Je Suis KKK?? Of course not
You want sick perverted speech protected, as long as it is politically correct/ And you are willing to call yourself a lewd charlie...which I find quite amusing because of the depravity & hypocrisy needed to do so
Jan 8th, 2015, 09:05 AM
#63
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do you know I;m a hypocrite, lol?
<You have certain speech which you want protected, and there is other speech dont want. >
Not so.
<You want sick perverted speech protected, as long as it is politically correct>
Not so.
I'm very consistent, actually, which you'd know if you knew me, but you don't, so... where do you get off flinging insults? Ah, never mind, it's why no one pays attention to your spittle flecked invective. Say what you want--fine with me--but I don't have to listen, lol.
<You have certain speech which you want protected, and there is other speech dont want. >
Not so.
<You want sick perverted speech protected, as long as it is politically correct>
Not so.
I'm very consistent, actually, which you'd know if you knew me, but you don't, so... where do you get off flinging insults? Ah, never mind, it's why no one pays attention to your spittle flecked invective. Say what you want--fine with me--but I don't have to listen, lol.
Jan 8th, 2015, 09:06 AM
#64
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know the Internet is not the place for nuance, nor is it a characteristic of conservatives, but the present KKK advocates for the curtailment of rights for people who are not them. In the past they were murderers and thugs.
Unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't, these were cartoonists, exposing the hypocrisy of everyone and were not advocating for the curtailment of the rights of others or physical harm.
I see the difference, you probably don't.
Unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't, these were cartoonists, exposing the hypocrisy of everyone and were not advocating for the curtailment of the rights of others or physical harm.
I see the difference, you probably don't.
Jan 8th, 2015, 09:11 AM
#65
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<If a KKK granddragon was killed by terrorists for his speech, would people call themselves Je Suis KKK?? Of course not>
In your haste, you have confused two issues.
Would I shed a tear over the assassination of a Grand Dragon (lol--they do make themselves ridiculous, don't they?)--no. I might even cheer, because I am not a saint. But I would not encourage a would-be assassin, nor a would-be censor, because I believe in freedom of speech, full stop. One is my emotional reaction, based on my agreement or disagreement with the Dragon's views; the other is the principle I support.
Put in a way a child can understand, I don't have to like everyone, but I do have to let everyone have their say.
In your haste, you have confused two issues.
Would I shed a tear over the assassination of a Grand Dragon (lol--they do make themselves ridiculous, don't they?)--no. I might even cheer, because I am not a saint. But I would not encourage a would-be assassin, nor a would-be censor, because I believe in freedom of speech, full stop. One is my emotional reaction, based on my agreement or disagreement with the Dragon's views; the other is the principle I support.
Put in a way a child can understand, I don't have to like everyone, but I do have to let everyone have their say.
Jan 8th, 2015, 09:53 AM
#68
Welcome to the culture gap RM (rolling eyes}>>
no culture gap here, FrankS - WE are all in support of the french courts that refused to censor a satirical magazine.
YOU, on the other hand, are blaming the victims of terrorism for exercising their right to free speech as upheld by those very courts, and are effectively excusing the actions of the terrorists.
But then whatever coats they wear, extremists are all the same under the skin, aren't they? - they all want the right to express themselves but want the rest of us to keep quiet.
no culture gap here, FrankS - WE are all in support of the french courts that refused to censor a satirical magazine.
YOU, on the other hand, are blaming the victims of terrorism for exercising their right to free speech as upheld by those very courts, and are effectively excusing the actions of the terrorists.
But then whatever coats they wear, extremists are all the same under the skin, aren't they? - they all want the right to express themselves but want the rest of us to keep quiet.
Jan 8th, 2015, 09:57 AM
#69
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<extremists are all the same under the skin, aren't they? >
They certainly are. The intolerance of offense, the self-righteousness, the victim complex, the hair-trigger temper...jihadis have no corner on these characteristics.
They certainly are. The intolerance of offense, the self-righteousness, the victim complex, the hair-trigger temper...jihadis have no corner on these characteristics.
Jan 8th, 2015, 10:02 AM
#70
Jan 8th, 2015, 10:09 AM
#71
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
YOU, on the other hand, are blaming the victims of terrorism for exercising their right to free speech as upheld by those very courts, and are effectively excusing the actions of the terrorists.<<
Ann
I dont have sympathy for people who provoke their own deaths with vulgarity & stupidity. I do have sympathy for their families and those others caught in the crossfire. Worse though, Western ignorance of Sharia Law and fantasy support of non existent free speech will lead to more violence whether by other muslims or those who want revenge against muslims. You arent supporting free speech because it doesnt exist in France, you merely support protection of trivial lewd speech
Ann
I dont have sympathy for people who provoke their own deaths with vulgarity & stupidity. I do have sympathy for their families and those others caught in the crossfire. Worse though, Western ignorance of Sharia Law and fantasy support of non existent free speech will lead to more violence whether by other muslims or those who want revenge against muslims. You arent supporting free speech because it doesnt exist in France, you merely support protection of trivial lewd speech
Jan 8th, 2015, 10:28 AM
#74
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<I dont have sympathy for people who provoke their own deaths with vulgarity & stupidity. >
So you're picking and choosing whose speech to protect based on your tastes and sensibilities. OK. That aligns you with the likes of Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin, and not Ronald Reagan, whom I am sure you regard with moist-eyed reverence. Glad we're clear on that, at least.
So you're picking and choosing whose speech to protect based on your tastes and sensibilities. OK. That aligns you with the likes of Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin, and not Ronald Reagan, whom I am sure you regard with moist-eyed reverence. Glad we're clear on that, at least.
Jan 8th, 2015, 11:10 AM
#75
I think that FrankS's point is that because there is not complete freedom of speech in France [see the clips from Wiki that he cites] it is hypocritical to support satirical magazines such as Charlie Ebdo whilst others [not sure who but they probably include FrankS and his mates] are silenced in the name of "political correctness".
As for his not having sympathy for those "who provoke their own deaths with vulgarity & stupidity", if that's Christianity, you can keep it.
As for his not having sympathy for those "who provoke their own deaths with vulgarity & stupidity", if that's Christianity, you can keep it.
Jan 8th, 2015, 11:43 AM
#79
NewBe: maybe get off your podium . . . you have reported me and others to the moderators - so not so supportive of 'free speech' are you?
franks and newbe - your spat is not the topic of this thread so take your argument to the lounge where you can be as argumentative as you want.
This thread was started and should remain in support of Charlie and the people of France in this dark time.
franks and newbe - your spat is not the topic of this thread so take your argument to the lounge where you can be as argumentative as you want.
This thread was started and should remain in support of Charlie and the people of France in this dark time.
Jan 8th, 2015, 11:59 AM
#80
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,820
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread was started and should remain in support of Charlie and the people of France in this dark time.<<
If you have been reading my posts, I actually address the topic. The topic is 'I am Charlie' not I support free speech. There is a difference. My argument of supporting 'Charlie' isnt a support of free speech. Its a support of lewd speech as a vain reaction to a terrible crime.
I would enjoy an authentic support of free speech, an authentic support of French laws on hate speech, or anything intelligent. I find this threads hypocrisy somewhat nauseating
If you have been reading my posts, I actually address the topic. The topic is 'I am Charlie' not I support free speech. There is a difference. My argument of supporting 'Charlie' isnt a support of free speech. Its a support of lewd speech as a vain reaction to a terrible crime.
I would enjoy an authentic support of free speech, an authentic support of French laws on hate speech, or anything intelligent. I find this threads hypocrisy somewhat nauseating
