jspen

I have already gotten a lot of help from Fodorites on the UK and Netherlands portion of our month-long trip planned for late June through the end of July (thanks to all!). But I could still use some advice on the rest of our itinerary, as well as with some transportation questions...

1) After the UK portion of our trip, we were thinking of traveling to the Continent via ferry from Dover, dropping our rental car off either in London (Heathrow) or Dover. We have not yet rented the car but had looked at prices on AutoEurope--would it be better to drop off at Heathrow and take the train to Dover, rather than trying to drop off in a different UK city? I couldn't tell if we'd incur a drop-off charge within the UK.

2) Once we get to Calais by ferry, it turns out we cannot rent a car, as we're arriving on a Sunday, and the rental place will be closed. We are planning to go that night to Brugge, so I'm wondering if it makes sense to take the train from Calais to Brugge and rent the car there? Alternatively, would it make more sense to take the train the whole way (rather than the ferry)?

3) After one night in Brugge, we will be going on to Enschede, in the Netherlands for 4 days, spending one night on the way near the Hoge Veluwe National Park. When we leave Enschede, we will be going on to Copenhagen and Lund, Sweden via LegoLand. So my question would be: Where should we stay after leaving Enschede on the way to Billund? I had been thinking of Bremen, Germany but would welcome other suggestions. Also, when we leave Billund, is it do-able to drive to Copenhagen in one day, or should we try to stay somewhere along the way?

4) Last, but not least, we had been thinking of renting a car for the whole Continental portion of our trip, but drop-off charges are HUGE if we get the car in Brugge and leave it in Copenhagen when we fly out. I know we will want a car in the Netherlands for day trips from Enschede, but I'm now wondering if we could do without a car from then on? Is there a train pass that would cover our journey from Enschede to Billund/Copenhagen/Lund and any day trips we might take in Denmark/Sweden?

Sorry for the long post... And thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Jamie

PalenQ

You could take the Eurostar train the whole way London to Calais-Frethun or better all the way to Brussels because once you get off the Eurostar in Brussels the ABS or All-Belgian-Stations fare kicks in where within 24 hours of your Eurostar train you can take any train - just hop on with your Eurostar ticket - to any Belgian station - like Bruges

If you did the boat to Calais and then by bus and train to Bruges it would take much longer (also figuring in the drive from London to Calais)

And if you dropped the car off in London the night before you would save one day's car rental and also the cost of petrol driving to Dover.

But the kicker on Eurostar trains is to buy you ticket as soon as you can - there is a Byzantine fare structure if a variance in fares of $100 or so - if you just show up in London you could pay $100 or more than nabbing one of the limited number advance booking fares - right now RailEurope in the U.S. has a special of $82 one way for travel thru the end of August London-Brussels-Bruges. always check however fares in pounds at www.eurostar.co.uk or www.eurostar.com as the fares in $ sold in U.S. thur RE often have little correspondence to those available in pounds. In either case you pick up the e-ticket in London at the Eurostar check in at St Pancras station. www.raileurope.com for fares in $ sold in U.S. - i always suggest fpr any RE product to check out www.budgeteuropetravel.com and call and have someone there (experts IME) do a manual check of the RE data base because we've had many reports here of raileurope.com not always showing the cheapest available fares for some reason. For ferry boats you can just show up and get the standard foot passenger rate. If you were going round trip then you could perhaps get a discount but otherwise just show up at the Dover Eastern Docks or the Hoverport (or whatever they call it now)

jspen

Hi, PalenQ--Thanks for your tips on the Eurostar. I looked just now and got two different fares for the same date--one was given in US$ and one in GBP, even though I only used the one site (eurostar.com). The one in GBP was cheaper (40GBP/pp vs. $75/pp). The only thing I couldn't find out how to do was continue through to Bruges--when I put that in as the destination, it wouldn't take it, so I don't know what the fare would be to continue on.

I know the ferry would be cheaper for that portion of the trip, but we'd have to get there from Heathrow and then add on the train from Calais, so the cost might end up being similar...

I appreciate your help!
JS

PalenQ

Bruges will not appear on the Eurostar fares - just Brussels in Belgium - the only Belgium station it stops at.

then the eurostar ticket should have an ABS endorsement on it and that ticket can be used free on any train Brussels-Bruges within 24 hours. That said i know 100% that is the policy of fares bought in $ thru RailEurope and 95% sure of fares in pounds as well but not totally sure as i never have had a ticket in pounds. Assume it's the same. 40 pounds is a very good fare - hop on it IMO $60 vs $75

jspen

I also thought the fare seemed good--and even better if the remainder of the trip would be free from Brussels to Bruges. However, we CAN'T book it, unfortunately, as the schedule doesn't go far enough out. I will keep my eye on it, though, and hope a similar fare will be available for mid-July. The date I looked at for comparison was in early-mid June...

hetismij

For the Dutch part of your trip you could get the train across the border from Brugge, then hire a car, and arrange to drop it in Enschede, though you will need to check on drop off fees again, though they should be very high. Otherwise get the train to Enschede and hire a car there, back tracking to Hoge Veluwe for a day.

You can then get a train from Enschede to wherever you choose in Germany, you could just cross the border, and do the same thing again with car hire or carry on by train to Bremen or wherever. Then the same for getting to Billund.
It makes life more complicated but it can be done.

Even easier, though you then miss out on Germany would be to get the train from Brugge to Schiphol. Pick up a hire car there and go to Hoge Veluwe, and then on to Enschede, return the car to Schiphol and fly to Billund or Copenhagen and pick up a new hire car there for your time in Denmark. I'm not sure that is a financially sound choice though. You may well find it cheaper to book a return and to throw away the second half of the ticket, than to book one way.

travelgourmet

Also, when we leave Billund, is it do-able to drive to Copenhagen in one day, or should we try to stay somewhere along the way?

This is definitely do-able. Roughly 3 hours or so drive. Be prepared for some very expensive tolls. You will encounter similarly high tolls driving from Copenhagen to Lund.

Factor all of that in, but I'm not sure I would forgo the convenience of a car in Denmark and Southern Sweden. The train system is good, but not great and the freedom of a car is nice. Have you thought about parking in Copenhagen? It can get expensive.

I would look into the a train or flight to get to Denmark, if the drop-off charges are high enough. Otherwise, renting a car in Denmark is relatively affordable - just make sure that you reserve and pay with an American credit card, as it is much cheaper.

PalenQ

I also thought the fare seemed good-. However, we CAN'T book it, unfortunately, as the schedule doesn't go far enough out. I will keep my eye on it, though, and hope a similar fare will be available for mid-July.>

Well you may consider paying the $75 to guarantee what is IMO still a great fare - surprisingly low IMO and fares in the U.S. thru RailEurope can be booked up to nine months in advance. Again as in an above post i always advise folks to have someone do a manual search as raileurope.com does not it seems always show the lowest fares - as several Fodorites have complained.

jspen

Thanks, hetismij and travelgourmet for the train/car rental advice. I will look into breaking down the trip a bit more and maybe renting the car for each country separately and see if that helps... I will also look into airfares. I'm not sure how that will add up with 4 of us, but it's worth checking all options.

With AutoEurope, renting the car for the whole 2 weeks and dropping off in Copenhagen was about $540 for the car and $660 plus VAT for the drop-off charge! But that may still end up being more economical and convenient than some of the other choices--I'm just reluctant to pay more to drop the car off than to rent it!

I did previously look into the "SelectPass Saver" train pass on the Rick Steeves site, which allows a certain number of days travel in 3-5 adjacent countries, and that was in the same range as the car but only allows limited travel (6 days in 4 countries was nearly $1,400 for 4 of us). So I was worried that we'd only be able to get from point-to-point but not be able to explore once we arrive.

Wish this wasn't so complicated...

Travelgourmet, thanks also for the advice about getting to Copenhagen from Billund. Is there anywhere we should be sure to visit along the way? Maybe for a stop for lunch?

I also appreciate the advice about tolls/parking fees. We are hoping to visit friends in Copenhagen, so we may have a bit of local help there.
Thanks so much!

hetismij

Odense, birthplace of Hans Christian Andersen is worth a visit on you way to Copenhagen.

Have you tried contacting car rental companies directly about the drop off fee? Or asked a travel agent what they can do? When we drove Route 66 a few years ago we ended up using a travel agent as she was able to get us a car hire deal with a $200 drop off fee, whereas we were quoted $1000 for the same thing, from an online booking agency!
It may well still work out cheaper to pay the drop off fee, painful as it is, than buy train tickets/airline tickets for 4 of you. Plus the ease of having a car all the way through may counteract the expense.

jspen

Thanks, hetismij--we'll look into Odense. I just thought it might be nice to know what might be of interest along our way.

I did a bit more searching today, and Hertz comes up cheaper than AutoEurope for our route (Brugge to Copenhagen), by about $200-300, so that would help considerably--plus we can get a diesel car, so that might save on fuel costs. You're right that I could try a travel agent and not go through all this myself, but it's so addictive!

hetismij

A diesel will certainly save on fuel costs for you.
I know it is addictive, and fun too, I love doing all this sort of thing too, but with our Rte 66 trip in made the difference between us going or not. I am so glad we called in on that agent to see what she could do!

Palenque

Rte 66 trip - must have been a while ago as Diesel in the U.S. has been priced much much higher than regular fuel for some years now

once was cheaper

hetismij

Pal - you misread. I saved on the one way fees, not on a diesel. jspen can do both if she uses Hertz for her car.

It was March 2002 actually. Still empty planes after the previous September's events, and being before the season started. Snow in Chicago when we landed, and again at Grand Canyon. Seriously cold in NM/AZ, but otherwise brilliant weather, and fantastic people along the way. We'd do it again in a heartbeat!
We had snow at the GC in May last year too. Better not try going there in August

Palenque

Hetismij

I have been there - Grande Canyon - in August - drove over from Lost Wages where the temps were around 120 degrees - canyon being several thousand feet high felt cool but yes there were many crowds around the main village area. But still this canyon is to me the most impressive natural feature i've ever seen

Have you gone down on donkeys?

Palenque

ROUND THE SOUND DAY TRIP FROM COPENHAGEN

One of my best day trips ever went from Copenhagen over the awesome fairly new tunnel/bidge over the Ore Sound (fab views from the top of the bridge part (which carries both a road and railway) to Malmo, Sweden

Malmo is a modern boring town IMO so hop on the next train to Lund, one of Scandinavia's cutest and most interesting cities IMO. Lund has a neat pedestrian central zone and a campus- or park-like setting in which you find one of Scandinavia's greatest cathedrals - and all around are lovely old buildings of the University of Lund, one of Sweden's top universities along with Uppsala.

From Lund continue north on trains to Helsingorborg, Sweden to hop the ferries over the Helsingor, Denmark (Elsinore in Engli and 'Hamlet's Castle' stares you in the face as your ship heads for the Helsingor terminal and adjacent train station for trains back to Copenhagen. Helsingor's main street is lined wall to wall by booze shops catering to the Swedish invasion here to buy alcohol at prices only dreamt of in Sweden, where a steep tax is added on to booze - a tax that is much lower in Denmark.

These S-Tog trains hug a sylvain coast of wealthy estates and forests back to Copenhagen.

total travel time Cope then 'Round the Sound' via Helsingor is only about 3 hours, leaving plenty of time to linger in Lund, see Hamlet's Castle, etc.

If you have a railpass valid in both Denmark and Sweden it will cover this journey in all its components, including the boat.

Palenque

BAKKEN VS TIVOLI

The world's oldest amusement park, Bakken just north of Copenhagen to me is just as much fun as in-town world-famous TIVOLI. And unlike pricey Tivoli, Bakken is free.

Bakken has the amusement park rides a la Tivoli and also oodles of entertainment of eclectic natures and best of all Bakken is free! Whereas Tivoli attracts swarms of foreign tourists Bakken attracts mainly IME a purely local Danish or Swedish crowd.

Bakken is set on the edge of a vast sandy park which offers some nice walks and sights of its own - especially zillions of tiny deer. Bakken is also just a short walk from one of Denmark's most popular beaches. Families may well want to spend a whole day out in nature and in Bakken. S-Tog trains go all the time to a station near the park entrance.

jspen

Palenque--
Thanks for your thoughts about the "round the sound" trip--sounds lovely. However, as I mentioned earlier, we will be staying in both Lund (4 days for husband's work at the university) and Copenhagen (to see friends, probably 2 days) and were really looking more for advice on local sights and short day trips in the area, primarily around Lund, which we don't know much about. We could still look into doing the trip you suggest, but I was thinking more of fun sights within an hour's drive or so--castles, Viking history, nice coastline and so forth. I will be with my two kids (7 and 11) on my own some of the time while my husband is working. The Bakken amusement park sounds great--and we will have a car, so can probably get there fairly easily.

We did decide to rent with Hertz, as their drop-off fee was half that of AutoEurope, and we're able to get a diesel. So we will now be driving all the way from Bruges to Lund, via Enschede (Netherlands), Bremen, Legoland, and Copenhagen. Any further thoughts on interesting things to see along the way would always be appreciated!
Thanks!

Palenque

Sorry i did not note that you were staying in Lund but anyway as many others with Copenhagen bases read this i thought i relay what a great loop that was.

Lund to me is one of the nicest cities i've ever seen in Scandinvaia - one of the few to me that has any real old-world character and not all modern - like Malmo IMO

Palenque

since you are basing in Lund - a great day trip by car (or train) goes via Helsingborg, Sweden over the train/car ferry to Helsingor (Elsinore) Denmark - take in hamalet's Castle, which besides any dubious associations with the Bard's Hamlet is still one awesome castle - esp in its setting jutting out into the Sound.

Then motor or train a tad south of Helsingborg to Humlebaek and the fantastic Louisiansa Open-Air Statue park, in a verdant park-like setting overlooking the Sound - dotted by both Uber famous works of modern artists and some avant-garde cutting edge stuff.