If Fodor's is a non-commercial forum...
Dec 13th, 2010, 06:56 PM
#1
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If Fodor's is a non-commercial forum...
If Fodor's is a non-commercial forum, then posters should refrain from recommending online booking engines which are really just the "front end" of an online travel agency (OTA). I'm noticing more and more postings for hotel booking engines, places to book cruises, etc.
Individual TA's are prohibited from promoting their services - even though they typically do the same thing at the same price as the OTAs (i.e., book hotel rooms, without a booking charge). They also provide advice, service, and special amenities that the OTAs can't begin to match...
Keeping Fodor's non-commercial keeps the quality of the conversation high, but this needs to be a level playing field.
What do you think?
Individual TA's are prohibited from promoting their services - even though they typically do the same thing at the same price as the OTAs (i.e., book hotel rooms, without a booking charge). They also provide advice, service, and special amenities that the OTAs can't begin to match...
Keeping Fodor's non-commercial keeps the quality of the conversation high, but this needs to be a level playing field.
What do you think?
Dec 13th, 2010, 07:17 PM
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It is not the companies that are making the recommendations but travelers who have had good experiences. The same is true with hotels and restaurants.
The thing I cannot abide are posters who just google sites and places and have no personal experience with those entities.
The thing I cannot abide are posters who just google sites and places and have no personal experience with those entities.
Dec 13th, 2010, 07:22 PM
#3
I see a big difference between advertisements and personal recommendations based on experience. It is the latter that makes this forum really useful, and I have used many of the recommendations I have found here.
It is a non-commercial forum if nobody posts for their own commercial benefit. Individual travel agents and online travel agents and booking agents are treated exactly the same way. A recommendation for an individual travel agent by a poster who does not benefit financially from the agency is just as welcome as a recommendation for an online booking service by a disinterested party.
The playing field is already level.
It is a non-commercial forum if nobody posts for their own commercial benefit. Individual travel agents and online travel agents and booking agents are treated exactly the same way. A recommendation for an individual travel agent by a poster who does not benefit financially from the agency is just as welcome as a recommendation for an online booking service by a disinterested party.
The playing field is already level.
Dec 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM
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Agree with travelhorizons re the apparent uptick in thinly - and not so thinly - veiled posts for commercial enterprises. There is one poster who recently peppered the board with a Turkish hotel booking site. Overall it does not happen all that often, IMO. When it does I ignore the recommended site and often hit the tattle tale triangle.
I also agree with Nikki that it is an inherent conflict of interest that distinguishes between an acceptable recommendation and self promotion. The playing field is level - if a mom and pop TA wants to compete with the OTA's they can launch their own ad campaign - Fodor's just can't be part of it unless they buy a pop up ad on the site.
I also agree with Nikki that it is an inherent conflict of interest that distinguishes between an acceptable recommendation and self promotion. The playing field is level - if a mom and pop TA wants to compete with the OTA's they can launch their own ad campaign - Fodor's just can't be part of it unless they buy a pop up ad on the site.
Dec 13th, 2010, 11:30 PM
#5
1) just use the yellow triangle, I hit it once a month and Fodors take them out pretty fast.
2) No such thing as non-commercial, Fodors itself "positions" itself with the web site.
3) Some web sites are good at specific things. Tripadvisor and gumtree are good examples. Google offers a great map service.
4) "People try to advise even if they don't know what they are talking about" well they are humans...
2) No such thing as non-commercial, Fodors itself "positions" itself with the web site.
3) Some web sites are good at specific things. Tripadvisor and gumtree are good examples. Google offers a great map service.
4) "People try to advise even if they don't know what they are talking about" well they are humans...
Dec 14th, 2010, 01:42 AM
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I don't have a problem with travellers suggesting a site that might be helpful for another traveller who needs help. If I recommend a particular booking agency etc, there's no financial gain in that for me, so I think it's different from say, the owner of a hotel, coming onto Fodor's and posting the link to their own place of business.
Dec 14th, 2010, 01:57 AM
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Fodors is better than most although some do tout here.
TripAdvisor forums are the worst for this
Where the mods sanction and even appoint on the forums
some for profit agents/owners as "Destination Experts"
who then troll for profit and scam clueless newbie travelers.
Worst on the CR board where one of the "experts" occultly
refers to his wife and Galapagos where one of the "experts"
refers to her husband marking up prices sky high
while they are at it...
The yellow triangle works well here and at least the mods
do not participate/sanction the for profit touting
like TA/Expedia (lots of complaints on FTC.gov on this)
and a class action suit in the works alledgedly
for violation of RICO statutes.
TripAdvisor forums are the worst for this
Where the mods sanction and even appoint on the forums
some for profit agents/owners as "Destination Experts"
who then troll for profit and scam clueless newbie travelers.
Worst on the CR board where one of the "experts" occultly
refers to his wife and Galapagos where one of the "experts"
refers to her husband marking up prices sky high
while they are at it...
The yellow triangle works well here and at least the mods
do not participate/sanction the for profit touting
like TA/Expedia (lots of complaints on FTC.gov on this)
and a class action suit in the works alledgedly
for violation of RICO statutes.
Dec 14th, 2010, 03:43 AM
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<<TripAdvisor forums are the worst for this Where the mods sanction and even appoint on the forums some for profit agents/owners as "Destination Experts" who then troll for profit and scam clueless newbie travelers.>>
This is not really true, at least not on the forums on TA I frequent. I have seen the occasional walking tour guide or member with a vacation apart to rent, etc., join to be "helpful", but they are rather transparent, are found out quickly, and don't last long. Worse are those who cull the recommendations of experienced, long time, contributors for their various enterprises.
This is not really true, at least not on the forums on TA I frequent. I have seen the occasional walking tour guide or member with a vacation apart to rent, etc., join to be "helpful", but they are rather transparent, are found out quickly, and don't last long. Worse are those who cull the recommendations of experienced, long time, contributors for their various enterprises.
Dec 14th, 2010, 04:47 AM
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How about posters who continually promote certain TAs, who also happen to be posters here. Once in awhile would be fine but with some it happens constantly.
I ask because I am not sure of the answer myself. Maybe it is fine.
I ask because I am not sure of the answer myself. Maybe it is fine.
Dec 14th, 2010, 05:09 AM
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One thing I fail to understand is how folks are able to show up here to shill their own travel websites and they're not suspended, their posts aren't removed and they're effectively not selling a product, but they ARE permitted to "advertise" in terms of putting the name of their website on Fodors. Aren't they "using" Fodors to get people to go to another site, without paying any fee to Fodors?
BC
BC
Dec 14th, 2010, 05:14 AM
#12
That really does not bother me. I figure if it bothers Fodor's, then Fodor's can remove the posts. But I like seeing new travel websites. And lots of people regularly sign posts on all kinds of forums with their own websites as part of their signature.
Dec 14th, 2010, 05:15 AM
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I agree with bilbo, I frequently hit the yellow triangle when a new poster shows up and posts only to rave about a shoe or handbag site or a hotel (glowing reviews, but no non-hotel specifics about their trip). The moderators usually respond promptly.
However, I don't why I am more tolerant when a new poster comes here only to rant about something (especially shuttle services or apartment agencies). They could easily be plants from competitors. I should probably be more even-handed in my suspicions.
However, I don't why I am more tolerant when a new poster comes here only to rant about something (especially shuttle services or apartment agencies). They could easily be plants from competitors. I should probably be more even-handed in my suspicions.
Dec 14th, 2010, 07:05 AM
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Fodors bans advertising, that's all. That doesn't make it "noncommercial", not sure where that term came from. Following that logic, no one could recommend reading a guidebook (including Fodors).
Most of what people recommend on here will be some kind of business, obviously, whether a hotel, airline, sightseeing trip, etc. The forum would be nonsensical if no one could ever recommend anything that was a business. I can't even comprehend how that would keep the level of conversation high as there would be hardly anything to talk about if you couldn't ever name a business of any kind.
Most of what people recommend on here will be some kind of business, obviously, whether a hotel, airline, sightseeing trip, etc. The forum would be nonsensical if no one could ever recommend anything that was a business. I can't even comprehend how that would keep the level of conversation high as there would be hardly anything to talk about if you couldn't ever name a business of any kind.
Dec 14th, 2010, 07:56 AM
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Sorry but I recommend some booking engines, when it is required. I only recommend ones that I have used.
I have to laugh at the comments about TA because when you look at the right this forum has a link to TAs search engine to find accommodation. Other searchengines or as we say in the trade Booking Portal, are owned by the same group as TA.
You can usually see who spams a forum and who does not by looking at the posting history
I have to laugh at the comments about TA because when you look at the right this forum has a link to TAs search engine to find accommodation. Other searchengines or as we say in the trade Booking Portal, are owned by the same group as TA.
You can usually see who spams a forum and who does not by looking at the posting history
Dec 14th, 2010, 04:10 PM
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Agree that travelers are perfectly correct to provide advice based on their experiences either with individual hotels and restaurants or with specific booking services they have found to be helpful. The services and hotels are not advertising themselves.
The only things that bother me are the interminable posts for air b'n'b - many of which are first and single posts - and seem to be not part of true participation in Fodors - but just touting the site in question. (Not all posts on this topic are such, but a lot are - and therefor subject to question.)
The only things that bother me are the interminable posts for air b'n'b - many of which are first and single posts - and seem to be not part of true participation in Fodors - but just touting the site in question. (Not all posts on this topic are such, but a lot are - and therefor subject to question.)
Dec 14th, 2010, 04:21 PM
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Part of the interest of these posts is in the recommendations for specific services, i.e. a tour guide or a hotel, etc. Without these recommendations the site would be pretty useless. However some of the postings do seem to be huckstering travel agencies in ways that seem to indicate that these agencies are autorecommending. I think that is wrong.
Dec 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM
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As to posting about a website relating to travel, I often direct people to my own website. I spent a substantial amount of time in creating it and it holds a wealth of information for people who want to visit Rome. I do not require anyone to sign-up or sign-in. I have tried to provide links to information that is asked fairly regularly. In addition I have tried to compile a "library" of brochures, free guide books and such.
Do I sell something on my site? Yes, but in no post is it ever mentioned. Trust me, the amount of funds that come in do not even come close to the costs involved in creating and maintaining the site. I do it because I love the places I go to and hope to help people. I have no advertisers, but I do have sponsors. I only accept a sponsor after I have actually used a product or service and paid for it. IF the company lived up to what I would expect, only then do I even tell them I have a website.
I, as with many others, recommend companies that provide excellent service or products that I have personally experienced. Without the ability to post information such as this, how is someone supposed to learn the pros and cons of places, companies, etc.?
dave
Do I sell something on my site? Yes, but in no post is it ever mentioned. Trust me, the amount of funds that come in do not even come close to the costs involved in creating and maintaining the site. I do it because I love the places I go to and hope to help people. I have no advertisers, but I do have sponsors. I only accept a sponsor after I have actually used a product or service and paid for it. IF the company lived up to what I would expect, only then do I even tell them I have a website.
I, as with many others, recommend companies that provide excellent service or products that I have personally experienced. Without the ability to post information such as this, how is someone supposed to learn the pros and cons of places, companies, etc.?
dave
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