soccerose

Hi Fodorites, I have been pouring over this site for a few weeks now and would really appreciate some other eyes to look over my itinerary as a sanity check. I have found invaluable advice on this board already. I hope I don't have too many questions for a logical thread here.

About us - I am traveling to Italy in June with my 17 yr old daughter. It's kind of a graduation gift/last family trip before she turns 18. While we do want to see some popular tourist sites, I would rather enjoy a few than try to cram them all in. We'll spend time in St. Peter's and enjoy lunching in the shadows of the other beautiful churches. I'm a single mom since she was quite young, so the two of us have done a bit of traveling over the years. What we enjoy the most on our trips is "experiencing" life where we are visiting - to us highlights of other trips were playing cribbage in a barn in Maine, the country pub in Stoke Ferry, picking strawberries in Whales, and even grocery shopping in Paris. We are most excited about being in Europe during the World Cup. We are both 'football' players and the atmosphere will be nothing like in the US. We will be traveling through Italy by train - hopefully with just one backpack & duffle (which will start empty and fill as we shop) each. So enough blab.
Here is what I have so far. I don’t want to schedule our sightseeing, but note things we want to see/do:
6/16 Friday ROME (Columbus Hotel) - 3 nights
* Travel Day - London to Rome. Arrive Rome early afternoon/settle in & wander.
* Colleseum & Forum / Meet up with cousins to watch Italy vs. US game (still not sure who we will be cheering for)
* St Peters, Jewish Ghetto
6/19 Monday VENICE (Locanda Novecento) - 3 nights
* Travel Day - Rome to Venice. Leave Rome in morning evening in Venice
* 2 days Sightsee Venice
6/22 Thursday FLORENCE (B&B-tbd) - 2 nights
* Travel Day - Venice to Florence
* Sightsee Florence / Italy vs. Czec game in evening
6/24 Saturday SIENA (tbd) - 3 nights
* Calcio Storico Fiorentino (I worked the itinerary around this event) - afternoon travel to Siena
* Mornings: Balloon ride / Cooking class (we are really looking forward to these)
* Afternoons: ride through the countryside? / winery? / swim / picnic (just thoughts)
* Evenings: 'Round of 16' games in town somewhere
6/27 Tuesday: ROME (B&B-tbd) - 2 nights
* Travel - Siena to Rome; Meet friends with St Julie's choir tour group at noon.
Afternoon sightseeing / Dinner with St Julie's
* Wed morning: St Julie's sings for Pope / they leave for Venice & we shop in afternoon
Leave for London late Thurs morning.

Questions:
- (Venice) I would really love some sort of canal view. I don't think I can get that at the Novecento, but it is a very lovely hotel and seems perfect in every other way. I also liked the rooftop canal view cafe of the Foscari Palace. I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the suggestions/reviews/websites for Venice Hotels... other than being bigger, what the difference being on the Grand Canal vs another canal? More ‘traffic’? Noise is not an issue for us. Is the San Marcos area soo much more touristy and expensive than by than nearer the Rialto Bridge? I’m not really looking for more hotel recommendations, but rather does anyone have suggestions how they sort through all the pros & cons and reviews? For most cities, I’m not too worried as long as what I find is nice, but for Venice I want the right place (and sadly I’m not sure what “right” is).
- (Tuscany) I realize 1 day in Florence is not really enough to see it, but I would rather have the time in the country. Any suggestions on possibly a smaller museum than the Uffizi? Along the lines of the Musée d'Orsay in Paris that my daughter loved? Any comments on the Bargello?
- If we want to shop, advantages to Florence, or Venice, over Rome (less busy? Less expensive?) We have more time in Rome. We just want to dabble in some Italian fashion; the only Italian "designer" I wear now is Diadora. : (
- I was reading some threads on the bus from Florence to Siena and also looked at the Trenitalia website and it looks like its just over an hour by bus and 2 hrs by train. Is that because the train doesn’t go directly to Siena?

I’m pretty much planning this all myself and its fun, but an awful lot of information to process! I started a spreadsheet of tips, restaurants, and recommendations (I’m such a geek). Thanks for all your help.

zoecat

It sounds like you have a nice trip planned. In regards to your questions/concerns:

Venice- The San Marcos and the Rialto areas can be very congested, but Venice is small enough that I don't think it's a big deal. You can escape the crowds in a few minutes walk.

If you stay on the Grand Canal and you are on a lower floor you will have the light reflecting into your room, which is very nice. With 3 nights in Venice, you might be able to rent an apartment instead of a hotel. I know you don't want specific suggestions, but I can't help myself ...here's one you might like-

http://www.tiepoletto.com/

A couple of hotels near/on the water-

http://www.lacalcina.com/HTML/en/cal...lbergo_en.html

http://www.veniceby.com/calcinasuites/pages/profile.htm

http://www.locandaorseolo.com/en/description.htm

http://www.veniceby.com/alahotel/index.html


Tuscany- The Bargello is one of my favorites. It's usually not too crowded either. A beautiful building.


Shopping- Florence and Rome have more designer shopping than Venice. As you walk around in each city you may see things to buy. You do not need to limit your shopping to any specific city- it's everywhere.


Florence to Siena- Take the bus. Do not take the train. The bus is faster and drops you in the center of town. The train takes longer and drops you away from the town center.

nessundorma

I strongly recommend that you check out the Museo San Marco for your museum experience in Firenze, likewise the museum of the duomo. (Museo dell'Opera del Duomo).

Other rewarding glimpses of art in Firenze are the interior and exterior of the Bapistry.

As for Venice, I think I would prefer a hotel on a hidden away canal rather than the Grand Canal. But that depends on whether you and your daughter prefer the feeling of "top of the world/best seat in the house" or "my private Venice." Venice is actually rather small, so there is no point in booking into the most crowded spaces. You can easily walk everywhere. Tripadvisor and Slow Travel are good resources. What you want is confirmation that your hotel is smells fresh and clean and the the staff is friendly.

I'd like to suggest that given your preference for "experiencing" rather than sightseeing, that you include Piazza Santa Maria in Trastevere on your itinerary while you are in Rome. It could easily be included on the day when you are touring St. Peter's and the Jewish Ghetto. Simply hanging out in the Piazza and enjoying a cafe or a gelato or a meal is great, but the interior of the church, which has fabulous mosaics, is quite beautiful and can be seen in less than half an hour.

alison

could you fly into venice and work your way down to Rome? i assume you planned it this way because of the special event you wanted to attend or other reasons. I would also suggest reserving time to see the David in Florence in advance to avoid lines. I saw it first when i was about your daughter's age (I was 19 and backpacking on my own) and it made a great impression on me. Congrats on traveling with your daughter so much. I'm a single mom and did the same thing -- many memorable trips from teenage years through early 20's. enjoy it now -- when they get a serious boyfriend Mom's exotic trips don't sound nearly as good.

soccerose

zoecat, thanks for those recommendations - the tiepoletto is just what I was looking for and I am awaiting availability (got word that it might be).

alison - I am stuck with my loop due to the dates I need to be in Florence & Rome. I will do it differently next time. Your comment on the boyfriend made me laugh - the group we are meeting up with in Rome is my daughter's boyfriend and his family. They are traveling with their church choir and will be singing several places in italy. How may 17 yrs olds get to meet their boyfriend at the Trevi fountain in Rome??

I welcome any other suggestions for smaller or unique churches, museums, or other sights in Rome, Florence, & Venice!

Traviata

soccerose,

I suggest one of my favorites in Venice, Santa Maria dei Miracoli...this small church has a stunning interior...like a little jewel box...if you enjoy small and unique, I think you will like this...

venturegirl

Rome - I assume in your wanderings that you will spend some time in the Centro area and hit the Pantheon, Campo de' Fiori for the morning market, and Piazza Navona - lovely at night with the fountains running, live musica and ice cream desserts. I highly recommend the Galleria Borghese - it's a little further out from center in the park but it's stunning and since you have to make a reservation you can control your time. Back at the center try the Dora Pamphili a home converted to a museum -- get the audio tour, the history is facinating. With a piazza a church around every corner there is amazing secret artwork everywhere - such single Caravaggio's and Michelangelo's. Books I like to use as reference are "Secrets of Rome" (there is one for Florence/Venice also) where architechts, artists, writers, etc. offer short blurbs on their favorite secrets sites and dining...and the Access books since they are laid out by neighborhood and outline short blurbs of nearly everything in each area, they are are convenient and informative.

Sounds like you've got the Venice lodging set now. I will just say that it's nice to get to the other side of the Canal and wander in the daytime and then have the San Marco side to yourself when the crowds have gone "home."

There are so many fabulous museums and churches to see in Florence, and yes the Bargello is interesting, but the Academia and the Uffizi are world famous for a reason. I agree that the Academia and the David would be a missed opportunity - it doesn't take long. And both do reservations -- you wouldn't want to do it any other way. Florence is the place for shopping in the markets -- it's fun and you can get some great deals. If you're at the street markets over closer to the train station, pop into the food market also - it's amazing. The fashion shopping in the designer stores in Florence, Venice, and Rome are fun - but you can now do that about anywhere in the world.

The only thing that I would wonder about for your trip between Rome and Venice is if there is an overnight train so that you don't lose a full day in either city sitting on a train. If there is, I'd spend another day in Rome.

Your trip sounds really fun - have a great time.

5alive

Soccerose --
Rome thoughts:
There's great shopping for a nice mid-priced items near the Columbus Hotel -- both around the Ottaviano Metro Stop, and in particular Via Cola di Rienzo. Clothing, purses, shoes, etc. I love the purse I bought there in December, very soft leather.

Also on this street, two great stores have food items for yourself or gifts--Castroni Via Cola di Rienzo 196. Franchi's -- a great deli -- is next door, and will vacuum pack cheese for your flight home if you ask.

For things to see in Rome...
If she likes the "oldness" of churches consider St. Clement's (very near the Colosseum).

If it turns out she loves the Colosseum and ancient Roman items, I'd take a half-day and go out to Ostia Antica. Similar to Pompeii. Rick Steves book is very helpful for this site.

Not an "A-list" tourist site, but you are staying right by Castel Sant'Angelo. The view from the top is wonderful, and this is where Puccini based the end of the opera Tosca.

Florence thoughts
The San Marco is a cloister and you get to see the Fra Angelicos in the setting they were meant for -- monks' prayer and contemplation. The building is beautiful and peaceful.

Or, call ahead and see if your hotel can get tickets to the Uffizi. You don't have to visit every room there, just do the highlights -- for me, the Botticelli Room and the Michelangelo Holy Family. Then eat at the cafe at the top of the Uffizi; I had a wonderfully fresh fruit salad and a great view of the Duomo.

Buon viaggio!

patth

You didn't ask about hotels, but we had such a great experience in Rome last summer that I had to share it. Location is everything in such a big city, so we wanted to stay someplace near the main sites. After cruising the net, we found a hotel called the Caesar House (they have a web site). What luck! Very beautiful and quaint. It's less than a block to The Forum (you can literally see it from the hotel) and just two blocks to the Colosseum. It's all new--just 6 guest rooms tucked on the 2nd floor of an 18th-century building they gutted. Sort of a bed & breakfast, but w/private bathrooms. Best of all, you can control the air conditioning, which we unfortunately found out is unusual in Italy (no matter what the hotels claim). Staff greeted us each afternoon w/chilled wine and a snack, delicious baked goods for breakfast, etc. They also couldn't have been more helpful in sending us to some great restaurants, shops, etc. It would be a fun place to stay with your daughter--each room is decorated differently and has its own personality. It's not the least expensive (but not the most, either), so you may want to check it out. Oh--one of the best meals we've had anywhere in the world is in a tiny restaurant right behind the hotel: La Piazzetta. They have salad and dessert buffets that are to die for (and delicious entrees, too)--and not too expensive (80 Euro including lots of wine for two). Heard it was recently mentioned in a New York Times article.

Enjoy Rome--it is such an amazing city!

franco

Re: "smaller" (or less known) sights!
Venice: other than S. Maria dei Miracoli (I fully agree on that), Scuola di S. Giorgio degli Schiavoni (maybe Carpaccio's best paintings, terrific as those shown at the Accademia are), S. Maria Formosa (early Renaissance), S. Simon Grando and S. Zuane Degolà (that's both Venetian dialect, your guidebook might call them S. Simeone Grande/Profeta and S. Giovanni Decollato, respectively - Romanesque churches), S. Nicolò dei Mendicoli (another Romanesque church), S. Sebastiano (with Veronese's best works, he's buried there), S. Salvatore (early Renaissance, terrific painting by Tiziano), S. Giovanni Elemosinario (another great Tiziano), S. Maria Zobenigo (or del Giglio, in proper Italian, with the one and only Rubens of Venice in a side chapel, and it's even a good one!), Scuola a S. Fantin (marvellous though all the paintings are by "B-painters&quot, the tiny Rococo concert hall at the "Ospedaletto" home for the aged, S. Lio (a side chapel boasting early Renaissance at its very best), the crypt of S. Marco, older than the basilica itself, opened only on request (and not easily, you have to be quite insistent), the Casa Goldoni where Carlo Goldoni lived (now an excellent and evocative little museum) ... I could go on and on.
But here is the best advice: if you are eager to experience the city more than its sights, get yourself the book "Venice. Thirty walks to explore the city" by Paolo Giordani, Cicero edition. He is guiding you on 30 walks, one for each parish (as determined by Napoleon, which is the only strange thing about this book, since the Napoleonic parish allocation was rather ephemeric in Venice). Other than that, this is maybe the greatest book on Venice, and you'll find it everywhere as soon as you're in Venice. Giordani tells the story of his city along these 30 walks, based exclusively on the buildings he is passing by, and that's certainly one of the most vivid history lessons ever written. And what's even more characteristic of this book: he doesn't at all focus on the "big" sights, but guides you into each and every corner, into courts and sideways so hidden that you'd never guess they are even there. Just great.
I could go on for Rome now; but that's even more stressful, since Rome has about hundred times more sights than Venice... Don't miss Santa Prassede, anyway, that's the jewel of medieval Rome, and it's hardly visited by anybody, what a shame! One of the world's few carolingian churches - 9th century, and full of terrific mosaiques. For the moment, I must admit I'm tired - if you want me to tell more about the hidden sights of Rome, just advise, please, and I'll make a follow-up tomorrow or on Monday.