We are traveling to Italy for the first time this Fall, and would appreciate any suggestions you have on the following itinerary. For example, is 2.5 days in Venice too long, and should we use that extra day somewhere else? Thanks!

10/31 Leave Dallas

11/1 Arrive in Rome, explore (Trevi Fountain, Piazza del Popolo > Spanish Steps). Stay at Campo de Fiori or Trastavere.

11/2 Ancient Rome: Colosseum > Forum > Capitol Hill > Pantheon, Castel Sant Angelo

11/3 Vatican Museum, Sistine Chapel, St. Peter's Basilica, post office (mail postcards from world's smallest country), Campo de' Fiori for dinner

11/4 Travel to Florence

11/5 Accademia (David), Duomo

11/6 Uffizi

11/7 Travel to Venice

11/8 St Mark's Basilica, Doges' Palace

11/9 Accademia

11/10 Travel to Rome (night train), explore (Capitoline Museums, Baths of Diocletian, Borghese Park/Gallery)

11/11 Depart Rome

If you must arrive AND depart from Rome, I suggest that on arrival you head directly to Florence for your stay there. Then go to Venice. Then go to Rome and put all your days in rome together at the end.

Also consider flying into Venice and out of Rome.

I think you've apportioned your days correctly. I think 2.5 days in Venice is NOT too many. And a night train is a bit silly--the ride from Venice to Rome is only 4.5 hours. Just get an early morning train and you'll be in Rome by noon.

No, 2.5 days is not too much for Venice. You'll probably be ready to slow down a bit by then anyway. And, if you exhaust the sights in Venice, you can always go to the islands: Burano, Murano, and/or Torcello.

Do you already have your plane tickets? If not, look into open jaws flights into Rome and out of Venice or, better, into Venice out of Rome. The latter gives you a little more time on the ground. And the open jaws saves time backtracking.

With extra time in a city, you can always use it as a base for daytripping. For example, Fiesole, Lucca, Pisa, and Siena all make good daytrips from Florence. (Individually, of course.) From Rome, you can do Ostia Antica or even Pompeii, Orvieto, or Florence. And, from Venice, you can do Verona or Vicenza as well as the islands.

Your itinerary basically looks good.

On 11/4 - travel to Florence. Florence is only 1.5 hours from Rome so you'll have lots of time to do things that afternoon. Things I see missing from your list: Santa Croce Church, Santa Maria Novella Church, Medici Chapel, San Marco convent, Bargello Museum, Brancacci Chapel (this is fabulous for its frescoes), Pitti Palace, shopping in Piazza San Lorenco. You can choose a couple of things from this list. My favorites are Santa Croce, Santo Spirito (not on the list but beautiful in its simplicity, Brancacci Chapel.

11/5 - include the Duomo museum and Bapistry.

11/6 - the Uffizi won't take all day. You'll have time to do a few more things.

11/10 - you need to reserve a 2-hour time slot at the Borghese. I'd recommend taking the docent-led tour. I thought it was wonderful.

I would not cut short your time in Venice as it's such a jewel. Simply walking around is a delight. Take a vaporetti ride on the grand canal from Rialto to St. Marks to see all the wonderful palazzi you can't see from the land.

Did you know that the ride from Venice to Rome is only 4.5 hours. Since it's such a short distance the night train makes lots of stops en route and you might wake up when the train motion stops.

Fly open jaw if you can. Backtracking wastes time and money.

I wouldnt cut any time from Venice.
She deserves all you can give her.
You will never want to leave.

I agree with Adrienne about places to see in Florence.
I loved the Bargello and Santa Croce Church.

Also dont miss the San Lorenzo Market. There are tons of open stalls and a wonderful huge building with shops and stalls.

I would definitely try for a open jaw ticket into Rome out of Venice or reverse to save time not backtracking.Venice is my favorite city in Europe and I would never cut my time short there. We always get a 2/3 day vaporetto pass so we can go to the other islands and just hop on the vaporetto when we are tired walking.Last year when we were in Venice it rained a lot everyday and we spent a lot of time riding the vaporetto everywhere we could.I could not even count the number of times we rode the vaporetto the full length of the Grand Canal and back. It was wonderful.I could never be bored in Venice as I mostly just like to be THERE!!!Save time to sit in canal side cafes and drink wine.Oh My.I love Venice!I don't even mind rain.It was even fun to see San Marco Square flooded.

Forgot to add the Castel San Angelo is very near the Vatican and you might want to do it the same day you go to the Vatican.

Thanks for the great advice. Unfortunately, we will need to fly into and out of Rome.

Here is the updated itinerary. Any other thoughts/suggestions are appreciated!

10/31 Leave Dallas

11/1 Arrive in Rome, train to Florence. Explore Florence (renaissance walk), San Lorenzo market.

11/2 Accademia (David), Duomo, Pitti Palace

11/3 Uffizi, Bargello, Santa Croce church, San Lorenzo/Medici

11/4 Train to Venice. Explore Venice.

11/5 St Mark's Basilica, Doges' Palace

11/6 Accademia

11/7 Train to Rome. Explore Rome (Trevi Fountain, Piazza del Popolo > Spanish Steps). Stay at Campo de Fiori or Trastavere.

11/8 Ancient Rome: Colosseum > Forum > Capitol Hill > Pantheon

11/9 Vatican Museum, Sistine Chapel, St. Peter's Basilica, Castel Sant Angelo, post office (mail postcards from world's smallest country)

11/10 Capitoline Museums, Baths of Diocletian, Borghese Park and Gallery (2 hr docent tour)

11/11 Depart Rome

11/2 is a Monday. I'm not sure the Accademia is open on Mondays.

Most but not all, museums are closed in both Florence and Rome on Mondays. Vatican Museums are normally closed on Sunday. The 9th is a Monday and Castel Sant'Angelo may be closed.

You have Capitol Hill on the 8th and Capitoline Museum on the 10th. I assume you mean "Capitol Hill" as the Capitoline or do you mean the Quirinale? If it is the Capitoline, then you can do the museums on the 8th.

On the 10th, while you are in the area of the Baths of Diocletian, don't forget to walk up to Santa Maria Vittoria to see Bernini's Ecstasy of St. Therese. Also, remember that one of the buildings of the Rome National Museum is also at the Baths, but unless they have changed, requires a separate admission.

If interested I have some streaming video tours made for Rome. You can watch them at...

http://www.passagetoroma.com/index.p...d=46&Itemid=61

Have fun

dave

Thanks again for your input. Here is the updated itinerary.

My biggest concern at this point is that we may be cramming too much/too little into a particular day, since it's hard to estimate how much time each building will take.

For example, Rome is looking crowded and Venice seems a little sparce. I'm wondering if I should move the Accademia to 11/4 or 11/5, and use 11/6 as an extra day in Rome.

What are your thoughts?

10/31 Leave Dallas

11/1 Arrive in Rome, train to Florence. Explore Florence, San Lorenzo market.

11/2 Bargello, Duomo, Duomo Museum, Santa Croce Church, Church of Santa Maria Novella, Palazzo Vecchio, Ponte Vecchio, Piazzale Michelangelo

11/3 Accademia, Uffizi, Pitti Palace

11/4 Train to Venice. Explore Venice, Rialto Bridge.

11/5 St Mark's Basilica, Doges' Palace , Bridge of Sighs

11/6 Accademia

11/7 Train to Rome. Explore Rome (Trevi Fountain, Piazza del Popolo > Spanish Steps). Stay at Campo de Fiori or Trastavere.

11/8 Ancient Rome: Colosseum, Forum, Palatine Hill, Pantheon, National Museum of Rome

11/9 Vatican Museum, Sistine Chapel, St. Peter's Basilica, Santa Maria della Vittoria Church, post office (mail postcards from world's smallest country)

11/10 Capitoline Museums, Borghese Park and Gallery (2 hr docent tour), Castel Sant'Angelo, Catacombs

11/11 Depart Rome

Hi Jim,

Now I think you have a bit too much on some of your days. 11/2 in Florence would be very ambitous. Your days in Rome are too much too.

Do a couple things: first look at a detailed map of your cities and group your sightseeing geographically as much as possible. Then, decide what your priorities are, and have a list of day and hours open for everything. Plan your days to accomplish those things most important to you and then add others as time allows.

Important: allow for many vino and gellato stops!

On your Accademia day in Venice, also take time to see Il Frari church, very nearby, but with limited hours. Doesn't take long, but there is some fabulous art in there!

Buon viaggio

On the 8th, if it were up to me, I'd do the Capitoline Museums instead of the National (I assume Palazzo Altemps).

Santa Maria Vittoria is across town from the Vatican. You can still get there pretty easily, as it is only about 6 blocks from Termini.

On the 10th you are doing a bunch of town crossings. Capitoline in the middle, Borghese to the far north, Castel Sant'Angelo to the southwest and the catacombs to the southeast.

Try this...

7th looks good. Depending on when you get in, you could do Maria Vittoria on this day, as it is a short walk from Termini.

8th do as planned, except swap the National for Capitoline.

9th do the Vatican things you have planned. Since it is a Monday, the Castel will be closed, but walking around the outside is pretty cool in its own right. Cross the Bridge of Angels, walk up the Tiber to the Mausoleum of Augustus. Ara Pacis will also be closed, but the mausoleum is an outside view.

10th, do the Borghese as planned. You could then take the 116 across the park from the Borghese, down to Santa Maria Concezione and see the Capuchin Crypts. Grab the metro A to termini, switch to the metro B and go to Circus Maximus. Catch the 118 bus down the Appian Way and see the catacombs. You are only crossing town once this way.

dave

I would not cut any time from Venice and I think you have your days well apportioned to the different cities. You just have to develop priorities for each place, and as Dayle and Davees said, arrange your visits geographically to save travel time between places you are seeing.

Thanks again everyone. Here is the latest itinerary, how does everything look?

10/31 Leave Dallas

11/1 Arrive in Rome, train to Florence. Church of Santa Maria Novella, San Lorenzo market.

11/2 Duomo, Duomo Museum, Bargello, Palazzo Vecchio, Santa Croce Church, Piazzale Michelangelo

11/3 Accademia, Uffizi, , Ponte Vecchio, Pitti Palace

11/4 Train to Venice. Explore Venice, Rialto Bridge.

11/5 St Mark's Basilica, Doges' Palace , Bridge of Sighs

11/6 Accademia. Frari Church

11/7 Train to Rome. Explore Rome (Piazza del Popolo > Spanish Steps > Trevi Fountain). Castel Sant'Angelo. Stay at Campo de Fiori or Trastavere.

11/8 Ancient Rome: Colosseum, Palatine Hill, Forum, Capitoline Museums, Pantheon

11/9 Vatican Museum, Sistine Chapel, St. Peter's Basilica, post office (mail postcards from world's smallest country), Santa Maria della Vittoria Church

11/10 National Museum of Rome, Catacombs of Priscilla, Borghese Park and Gallery (2 hr docent tour)

11/11 Depart Rome

Hi

One suggestion, arrange your itinerary to fly out directly from Venice. By doing this, it also saves you a full day of travel from Venice to Rome. We did that last summer and it was magical. In the morning, a water taxi picked us up at our hotel Ca angel and we went to the Venice airport. How often can you say that you went to the airport by boat! It was great! Furthermore, It was an early fligh, the water taxi picked us up very early something like 4 Am. It was magical to see Ponte rialto without the tourist. Think about this.

But godin, jimday posted some days ago their itinerary is to fly in and out of Rome, so the flight reservations have been made. No doubt you missed reading that post.

And just a side note, Venice can get very foggy in autumn and winter so it can be a problem getting to the Marco Polo airport early morning and the planes can often be very late departing due to the fog. I know from experience.

I would move Santa Croce and Piazzale Michelangelo to 11/1 as you have too much to do on 11/2. When you are at Piazzale Michelangeo see San Miniato.

11/1 - see if you have some time for the Medici Chapel.

11/3 - After you cross the Ponte Vecchio take a few minutes to look at Santo Spirito church, designed by Brunelleschi. It's beautiful in its simplicity and a wonderful contrast to all the other very ornate churches you'll see.

FWIW - I thought the Pitti Palace was boring.

Yes, unfortunately we need to fly into and out of Rome this trip.

Adrienne, I like your suggestion but am concerned about jetlag. I've heard your first day is pretty much a wash, and we will be taking the train to Florence the same day we arrive in Rome. I'll make a note though, if we are up for it I agree it would be nice to fit more in on the first day.

About your first, jetlagged, day, you may find you're more rested than you expected - or maybe not! Keep a couple of more active sites as a backup to do on that first day, if you have the energy (things that involve walking around and being outside are good first-day activities). Also keep in mind that despite your attempts, you will likely fall asleep on the train, or at least doze, so you'll get a little rest that way.