My wife and I will be meeting up with my son in Switzerland and Italy for 2 weeks from July 9-22. We are going to 5 cities Lucerne, Bern, Florence, Venice and Milan. The question we have is that my son was going to travel on a Eurail student pass, which is 2nd class and we can only purchase a 1st class pass. So for those of you who have traveled on the trains, please advise if you think it is worth the extra 260 euros for the 3 of us to go 1st class on Eurail pass, or if we should have him take the Eurail student and for us to book specific trains in 2nd class and go with him. Money is important, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. Thank you for any advice

I'm not sure I follow your math at all, but I have taken trains in Switzerland and they are very nice, so I'd so no based on that. Also, those places in Italy are not very far apart so the train trip can't be that long, can it?

Are you sure a Eurail pass even makees sense for just a two week trip and a few cities like that?

As for the math, I see that the difference in an adult saver pass (which is $575 per person) versus youth pass of $449 is only about $125. That's for the ten day pass, for the 5 day one it is $379 - $289 or about $90. So I don't see how it can be 260 euro extra for him to buy an adult pass. Those figures are the Select Pass which is more than enough for two countries.

BTw, maybe you are finding something different, as I see nothing called a Eurail "student" pass, only a youth pass. I don't think being a student has anything to do with it.

Before you even think of buying a rail pass, go to www.railsaver.com, enter your travel details and click on "Only if it saves me money."

Bear in mind that if you use a rail pass on the fast ES and ICPlus trains in Italy, you must buy a seat reservation, which costs 10 or 15 Euro per seat per train. (I don't know how much it is exactly, because I've never used a rail pass in 40 trips to Italy.)

Second class is perfectly comfortable in both Switzerland and Italy.

Christina, as always IME, is spot on - no student railpasses but Youthpasses that anyone under 26 qualifies for. These are 2nd class only and with Eurailpasses folks over 25 must buy first class passes.

Thus a Youthpass and Adult Eurailpass holder would have to sit in separate cars - but if you look at the price of a Saverpass (two or more names on one pass) then you will find that the cost of:

1 Youthpass + 1 Single Adult Pass ='s the p.p. cost of a 1st class Saverpass - you both travel in first class for the same total price about as it you'd bought solo youth and adult passes.

I always refer folks who are rather clueless on European trains and passes to these superb sites chock full of objective info as well as the usual pass prices: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com

That said for your travel plans i do not think a Eurailpass will be a good deal - trains in Italy are quite cheap and even limited travel in Switzerland may benefit from a Swiss Pass (just for Switzerland then buy regular tickets for travel from the Swiss border to Italian destinations. The Swiss Pass can pay off with just a few train rides and also covers postal buses, lake boats, entry to 400+ museums and gives 50% off aerial cable cars, trains to most mountain tops, etc. www.theswisstravelsystem.com contains a cornucopia of info on Swiss trains, lake boats, etc.

Bear in mind that if you use a rail pass on the fast ES and ICPlus trains in Italy, you must buy a seat reservation, which costs 10 or 15 Euro per seat per train.>

Zerlina makes a great point about using passes in Italy (and why the Italian railpass is often not a good deal) - the extra charges that even with a pass you must pay on nearly all fast trains now.

Like the ES (EuroStar Italia) trains that more and more are the only viable option between cities like you list - 15 euros per person each ride or $22 or so. And some of the newer versions of the ES trains like the ES AV cost 20 e - and the TBiz trains 25 euros.

IC+ trains are at times an alternative and only cost 5 euros for the reservation fee with a pass but they take longer and don't run nearly as frequently as ES.

You can absolutely sit in 2nd class with a 1st class ticket or pass. But not the other way around. So in case your math turns out such that it makes sense to buy an adult pass that is only available for 1st class, and you want to sit in 2nd class, go right ahead.

But I doubt, like other posters, that the Eurail pass will be of benefit on this trip. In Italy the per-km-travelled cost of trains is less than north of the alps, in Italy a pass rarely pays for itself unless you cruise up and down the boot a lot in a short time.

In Switzerland there are all kinds of passes that will make more sense than a Eurailpass - and the beauty is that you don't have to commit, simply arrive in Switzerland and go ask at the nearest train station, they will advise you on what's best if you tell them your travel plans.

Meanwhile look at the options on
http://www.swisstravelsystem.ch/en/c...offer/tickets/

Thank you all - It looks like it definitely makes sense to purchase the individual tickets for my wife and I. The travel agent I was working with on all the hotels, etc had recommended the pass, but I wasn't sure it was worth the money. For my so,n who will be there for a month, the Eurail Pass seems to make some sense.

Christina, Zerina, Palen and Dalai Llhama your advice is very much appreciated. I had wanted to drive, but my wife nixed that idea. I will look into the Swiss Pass. We fly into Zurich train to Lucerne and then begin the rest of the journey. If you have any other advice regarding the cities we will be visiting I would be most grateful to you for sharing your wisdom

The Berner Oberland, above Interlaken, is to me the high point and essence of the rugged glacier-girdled Swiss Alps.

If you have not been there then i would say consider subtituting a Grindelwald or Wengen in place of Bern, which i believe is a vastly underrated city but still a city whereas IMO the beauty of Swizerland is in the high Alps - easy to get to from Lucerne - take the narrow-gauge cog mountain-climbing cog railway over the Brunig Pass to Interlaken - a very scenic ride all the way and esp before Interlaken when the rails parallel the fjord-like Lake Brienz into Interlaken-Ost station, from where the mountain trains to the hills begins. A Swiss Pass covers all trains - the Brunig Pass line and mountain trains to Grindelwald, Wengenb, Murren, etc.

If you've been in the BO then consider taking the Brunig Pass route to Interlaken a changing for a mainline train to Bern, just about 45 mins from Interlaken.

A Swiss Pass can be a boon even for just a few trips and would take you to the Italian border.

If you have a Swiss Pass and are going to Italy:

Before boarding the train in Switzerland - say in Bern you take your Swiss Pass up to the ticket window and ask to buy a supplemental ticket from the last Swiss station on to your ultimate destination in Italy.

Then you need not get off the train to buy that ticket once in Italy and your Swiss Pass covers the Swiss portion - often the most expensive part.

Conductors may sell you the Italian ticket once the train enters Italy but typically these days you may pay a penalty fare in that case. Better buy it before boarding and then when your Swiss Pass runs out at the border you then have the point-point ticket from the Swiss border to your ultimate destination.

Palen - Thank you for the idea - we have never been to Switzerland so I am thinking of taking your recomemendation - Originially we were going to stay in Zurich but friends told us to go to Lucerne instead and then I choose Bern because of its historic nature. Now after your post, I have looked in some of the tour books and they seem to say that the BO is spectacular. Your insight on the Swiss Pass is very helpful. I have looked into the Swiss Pass and it seems to cover a lot of extras, but I was concerned about how the transport from Switerland to Italy would go on the pass as I did not want to have to physically get off of a train at the border to purchase tickets. Do you know if I buy the Swiss Pass and then the Italian Pass will they work together to actually cover the Switzerland to Italy leg of the trip

Forget any Italian Pass - all you need once in Italy are regular 'point to point' tickets that you buy in Switzerland before boarding the train to Milan or Venice, etc. You use your Swiss Pass to travel on it to the italian border - but before getting on the train in say Interlaken you take your Swiss Pass to the ticket window and buy a ticket that will cover you from the Italian border point to your Italian destination - then once in Italy just buy tickets as you go along. There is an Italian Railpass but you are not nearly traveling enough for it to pay off. (Not so on the Swiss Pass which i would recommend esp if staying in the Berner Oberland as it does cover in full trains to Wengen, Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen and even the spectacular aerial cable cars from Lauterbrunn Valley up to Grutschalp and the scintillating tiny train that hugs the cliff edge to Murren and then another absolutely thrilling aerial cable car back down via Gimmelwald (worth a good look - this remote farming village with spectacular views of the ice-girdled Jungfrau Massif just across a deep valley) and then the cable car that seems to plunge back down to the valley and the waiting postal bus back to Lauterbrunnen for trains back to Wengen, Interlaken, etc. This is my favorite excursion in the BOB and all of it is covered 100% by a Swiss Pass.

Anyway back to the train to Italy - buy your Italian ticket in Interlaken and you use your Swiss Pass and when the train enters Italy then you have your individual Italian tickets - you do not get off the train. (In my above post i explain this as well.)

If you have not been to the Berner Oberland yes IMO it is the absolute highlight of Switzerland and very easy to get to and once there you have a myriad of trains, cableways, gondolas, etc. to get around.

Wengen is one mountain base that gets rave reviews from many Fodorites - the train takes you there from Interlaken.

PalenQ - Again thank you - one last question - In looking at the Swiss Pass options we will be traveling by train actually for 3 days in 5 while in Switzerland. But if we can use the Pass on others means of tansit then we should extend the use to the additional days. Or do you simply get a discount on the other means of transportation by showing the pass

The 3-day Swiss Saver Flexipass probably is your best bet:

(Saver means two or more names on one pass - cheaper than two individual passes - both people do not have to be present however if one person wants to use the pass only)

The way the 3-day flexipass (3 unlimited travel days out of a maximum one-month period - need not be consecutive.

And in between the first and last or third day on 100% unlimited days you then by showing the pass get 50% off practically everything that moves in Switzerland - however once your third unlimited travel day is used the pass expires and you get no such discounts. Thus save the third unlimited travel day until you are heading to Italy.

Usually adding a 4th day on a flexipass is not as good as buying the 3-day flexi and then getting 50% off on the other two days (your five day plan) - esp because if say in the BOB area you may take something that the Swiss Pass does not cover 100% - such as gondolas to mountain tops where you get 50% only even if you were using the pass for one of your 3 unlimited travel days.

3-day flexipass is the only pass you should consider IMO
Any ages can buy a second class Swiss Pass and most find 2nd class very adequate in Switzerland.

PalenQ - I cannot thank you enough for your advise