nytraveler

The "throw the baby" scam is a worn, tired looking woman holding a baby doll well wrapped in a blanket and begging. If get close enough to her (you should walk far away) she will call out to you and toss you the "baby". Some people are so confused that they try to catch it - even letting go of their own belongings. Her partners then pick up whatever you drop or they pull off your purse or pick the wallet from your pocket while you are focusing on the "baby". They all run off - usually even stopping to pick up the "baby" for future use.

The "take a rose" is an elderly lady carrying a bunch of flowers who walks over to a woman and hands her a flower. She then asks the companion to pay for the flower. If he refuses she starts wailing and crying and saying you bought the flower and won;t pay for it. While she is making a scene - and often getting money from the confused companion - her partners again try for your purse or companions wallet. The key is not to walk near these women - and if they approach refuse to take the flower and yell "no" and "go away". You will probably be cursed - verbally and literally - and if you want to make her really mad laugh at her curses.

nytraveler

Sorry - unlike 3 card monte - which I have seen all over the world - these seem limited to europe - have never seen them in the US.

P_M

A friend of mine said someone attempted the throw the baby scam while she was somewhere in Europe. It was so obvious the baby was a doll she just batted it away and kept walking.

nytraveler

That works if you think fast enough - but many people don't. Much better just not to walk near these women at all (they are obvious if you're at all observant).

tuscanlifeedit

Well, call me chump but I've had hands all over me in Rome, and I'm a fairly frequent visitor.

I use a double zip cross body with a flap for my little bit of money and daily cards: they're all under two zippers and even then, I'm not adverse to a safety pin.

My husband keeps his things in his front pocket, but he's had hands reach inside his coat pockets.

We use a lot of public transportation, making us more vulnerable, but I think plenty of people have been pickpocketed without being on transport.

I never step away from bags in the train stations. In fact, I usually try to keep a hand on them.

The bag I use for "on the plane" and cross body between destinations has a secret pocket sewn in the lining. That's where our passports and extra cards and cash go.

Sure there's crime everywhere, and much more violent crime in the US, but where I come from, we don't have pickpockets. Pickpockets are a special breed and will snag your stuff if they can; keep it close and covered and zipped and pinned if you like.

Judging by your original question, you may be like me and would rather be safe than sorry.

letsgeaux

Never had a problem in either city, and we have spent many after midnight hours walking the streets.

colduphere

I'm with Tuscanlifeedit. Of course a person should use common sense and be wary just like back home. But it helps to know what to be wary of. I've seen diversion techniques used in Europe that I have never heard of being used in Canadian cities.

If I hadn't read about them here I would probably now be short a few wallets.

bilboburgler

I agree with everything that nytraveller says

Perfect the hundred yard stare
Don't let people into your personal space for any reason

In addition Mrs Bilbo and I have developed the following as she is "face blind" (Prosopagnosia). If I see a dodgy person (drunk, group of rascals etc) I call "ahoy" to her and she pays attention on moving out of the situation.

On the other hand, while Mrs Bilbo has a large solitaire she would not take it on the streets in Italy.

Ackislander

I had to reread bilboburglar's post to see if I had written it.

Same thing, different crimes in Boston, NY, Philadelphia, Washington, etc, though like nytraveler I constantly get asked for directions, even in countries where I don't speak the language!

Myer

I decided a long time ago that I'm a tourist and they're professionals.

I'm there to see the sights and they are there to rob me.

Who has the advantage?

I wear 2 money belts on European trips.

The larger one has things like my passport, secondary credit cards, extra cash, etc.

The very small one hangs from my belt inside my pants. In this one I carry about 50E and my primary credit card.

In my pockets I carry a street map and about 20E. Nothing else.

My camera hangs from my shoulder and across my chest.

I don't believe I can really stop them if they try hard. But if they do get me it won't be very rewarding.

I was pickpocketed once at the street market in Madrid. I felt it happening as somebody backed into me and dropped some change on the street.

A few seconds later a person walked over to me and said "somebody took this from you". I said "somebody".

He had my street map and empty sunglasses case (I was wearing them).

nytraveler

Every city in the world has pickpockets. If there are none near you - you are either in a rural or distant suburban area - and probably have other problems. (My grandmother wouldn't go anyplace without sidewalks and street lights because she thought it wasn't safe - and frequently she was right.)

I have ridden thousands of times on the NY subway and also many times on the tube in London and Metro in Paris and never had a problem - but I am aware of everything around me at all times. Admit I don't take public transit in Rome - we stay very centrally and walk most everywhere - or rarely a cab if the feet are too tired at the end of the day.

And I never use any sort of pouch or belt or anything - but if someone feels they need it - and they've had problems in the past - then more power to them. I know it can be difficult to become city aware if you're not used to it.

sandralist

There are practically NO PICKPOCKETS IN THE UNITED STATES. I am not making this up.

"Marcus Felson, a criminologist at Texas State University who has spent decades studying low-level crime, calls pickpocketing a "lost art." Last year, a New York City subway detective told the Daily News that the only pickpockets left working the trains anymore were middle-aged or older, and even those are few and far between. "You don't find young picks anymore," the cop told the paper. "It's going to die out." A transit detective in the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority, which operates the Boston area's bus, commuter rail, and subway system, concurred via e-mail. "Pickpockets are a dying breed," he wrote. "The only known pickpockets we encounter are older, middle-aged men; however, they are rarely seen on the system anymore."

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c...pocketing.html

Nytravler loves these threads where she can swan around and pretend she is such an authority on avoiding pickpockets because she is NEW YORKER and therefore smart, perfect, superior and a teacher to all.

But the truth is that, unless she is quite elderly, she has probably not been anywhere near a pickpocket in decades. Unless of course she went to Europe, where there is quite a lot of pickpocketing and being a New Yorker with a mean look on your face doesn't scare anybody. They will still pick your pocket if you keep stuff in your pockets.

Don't want to be pick pocketed? Don't put things in your pockets.

tuscanlifeedit

NYtraveler: I am going to ask my SIL, a veteran of NYPD, about pickpockets in NYC. I have never heard him refer to them. He has mentioned every other type of criminal known, but never a pickpocket.

I don't want to argue, but I will. I live in the middle of a large US city, not in a rural area or a suburb. We have house breakers, car thieves, vandals, even stick up men, but NO pickpockets.

Anecdotal evidence of never having been robbed in major European tourist destinations is worthless. You were lucky. Thank God, or whomever protects you. I can't believe that anyone would advise a worried tourist to not worry because they themselves have not been robbed.

Myer, great post. Cold, thanks. Sandra, you too.

nytraveler

Times Square is full of pickpockets. I have had two friends (careless) have their wallets lifted on the subway. And one older woman had her purse stolen while riding the bus (a youth grabbed it out of her hand as he was jumping off the bus and just ran).

And this is locals. I'm sure there are a lot of tourists who have pockets picked.

Do ask your SIL. This is not something that is a major focus of the NYPD since they have so much else to deal with. Just like they don't spend a lot of time looking for and breaking up the 3 card monte rings. If they happen to come across one they will try to arrest someone - but cops can't spend time looking for that.

What they are looking for at the moment is the characters in the Times Square area that are shaking down tourists to have pictures taken with them. There was one famous incident in which a Spiderman attacked a cop who was telling tourists they didn't have to pay the huge fee requested - and was arrested- the Spiderman that is. Now they are looking at the possibility of requiring the characters to have background checks and licenses in order to hang out there in costume.

tuscanlifeedit

I did talk to my SIL. He said that reports of pickpockets in NYC are very rare. He also said that his current area hasn't had a single report in 20 years.

The police may not always arrest criminals, but they do take reports, no matter how busy they are.

colduphere

Interesting article on pickpocketing:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c...pocketing.html

nytraveler

Um, what area is he in?

Pickpockets will be in the major tourist areas - not hanging around other places.

And of course they take reports for all crimes. And I do understand - my car was stolen from a parking spot right in front of our building. But there aren't any pickpockets here - it;s residential.

nytraveler

An article in the NYTimes in July referred to:

Mr. Rose is one of about 50 pickpockets whose mug shots are on flash cards studied by plainclothes subway officers. They call the thieves the “Nifty 50.”

As I said - the pickpockets are where the tourists and careless locals are.

They also said with the much greater emphasis on credit and debit cards - that eventually the pickpocketer will be obsolete - while credit thieves grow.

happytourist

When we were there last year, we met friends who had already been there for a couple of days. The very first day they were hit twice by the scam in which someone (one was a cab drive--don't know the other) takes your money (20 euro note) and then quickly palms it into a ten euro note, claiming you haven't paid enough. They objected loudly both times and got their change, but we all learned a lesson: every time we hand over money, we announce the amount out loud.

In Rome, the bus route to the Vatican is notorious for pickpockets as they know just about everyone on the bus is a tourist.

I always use a Baggallini messenger bag (cross body) that has a zipper on the inside facing the body, which is where I keep money and passport. At a restaurant, I try not to put my bag on the floor, but if I have to I put my leg through the strap. Occasionally I have used another type of crossbody bag that has a double zipper. I put a small padlock on it and reset it by just one number so it's easier for me to get into. That guy in the Milan train station who kept circling around us finally got the picture when I made it obvious that the purse was locked.

tuscanlifeedit

The OP hasn't come back to this thread and it has degenerated to become not very useful information. I'll sum up my own thoughts by saying that some people think one ought to be careful with one's belongings in Rome and Florence.