deduce. oi

Well, menachem, as much of my life as I have devoted to studying other languages, my Dutch is very weak, so if Dank u wel works, I'm happy with that.

I can mostly read Dutch pretty well, and understand if people speak slowly, but as I've had precious little chance to speak it, I am always veering toward the formal (as in the European languages I HAVE studied and can speak well). I figure it's better to be formal in an informal situation than the reverse.

A propos of very little, have you read the book Why The Dutch Are Different? I bought it at the synagogue bookstore in Amsterdam and found it fascinating, though I can't vouch for its veracity.

Coming from Britain, where, despite a well defined class system as I grew up, there is no polite/casual form of you, it took me ages to work out when to use u and when to use je, and even longer to remember to do so!
It is a relief that it is no longer frowned upon if I use je instead of u by mistake occasionally!

De and het are another problem, even after 30 odd years here.

A friend's husband was a hoogwelgeboren heer. Luckily he never used his title. Even luckier they divorced.

In Flanders most people use 'je'. But being frenchspeaking (*), 'u' is my first way to address strangers.
It is also a deadly weapon, when you are in discussions : if you revert from 'je' to 'u' in a discussion, it clearly tells the guys you are talking to that there is a problem.

(*) took me several months to say 'tu' to my in-laws and even more time time for her.

However when a foreigner is nice enough to learn our language(s) we don't mind if they mix 'tu' 'vous' 'u' 'je' 'jij' 'gij' (flemish, never heard it from a dutch).

No. 'Gij' is definitely when you know the person for long or you have zero education.

And inside 'de' you have to choosed wether it is a female or a male 'de'... In this case I use 'die'.

Waar is de auto ? should be answered by 'ze staat daar' (staan liever dan liggen, geloof ik). But if you hesitate between 'hij' of 'ze' just say - like me - 'die staat daar !'. Lazy, I know.

Dutch culture seems egalitarian, but isn't. Did I say polite usage is a minefield?

Haven't read Ben Coates' book @StCirq, but it sounds like apt social commentary. I assume you know that we've really gone off the deep end in the last decade or so, politically/culturally speaking.

I've always considered Simon Schama's 'An Embarrassment of Riches" to be a very good dissection of the Dutch sensibility. As a nation, we're iconoclasts at heart. In 16th and 17th centuries, we were the IS of Europe.

This is a good article by Coates about the North

http://www.scotsman.com/news/travel-...ands-1-3913014