Hey!

My friend and I (both 22 y/o gals from Australia) are looking at doing some travel through Europe and was hoping we could get some advice! We aren't looking for a super relaxed holiday but obviously don't want to me moving at 400 miles an hour without any resting time.
We’ve so far managed a list of countries we want to travel through. I’ll be honest and say we aren’t really into the typical tourist stuff. Sure we want to see the sights but we aren’t really much of the ‘hang around, really take it in’ types. Which I know is a bit of a blow but maybe I’ll blame our generation who are happy to snap a photo and move on! We also aren’t too big on Museums, however both have an interest in War type ones, criminal, etc. We do however want to fulfill plans of our bucket list to visit Europe and we both have the time and money to get that done at the moment so want to take that opportunity.

We plan on going in November for between 4-5 weeks. Below is a ‘rough’ itinerary, however the countries listed are set and what I’d really appreciate is if you could let us know which ones of these would be worth changing to 3 nights. From what is below we’d be fine adding roughly another 4-5 nights but working them in so some of these change to 3 nights from 2 or even taking some down to 1 night. We also plan on purchasing a Eurail pass so if you could let me know if that’s viable to get the unlimited for a month or if its worth hiring a car to get between a few of these that would be greatly appreciated too!

Edinburgh – hire a car – 2 Nights
Drive to Lincoln – England – (see relatives) – 2 Nights
Drive to London – drop off car – 2 nights * ~This one we think should be 3?
Train to Paris – 2 nights *~Thinking 3 again?
Train to Brussels – 1 Night
Train to Amsterdam – 2 Nights
Train to Berlin – 2 Nights
Train to Prague – 2 Nights
Train to Krakow – 1 Night (2days) (this is for Auschwitz)
Night Train to Budapest – 1 Night
Train to Vienna – 2 Nights
Train to Munich – 2 Nights *~Should this be 3?
Train to Venice – 2 Nights
Train to Rome – 2 Nights
This is a list of things we would like to do 100%. The rest we imagine will plan once we have nights and times sorted.

-Edinburgh Castle
-London Eye (is this worth getting the double pass for day and evening ride?), Abbey Road Crossing, London Dungeon, Tower of London, Buckingham Palace, (possible Madame Tussaud's?), Trafalgar Square
-Disneyland Paris, Paris Catacombs, Climb Eiffel Tower
-Brussels – uncertain. Thinking of making an arrive late, have a full day, leave early? We mostly want to stop here for chocolates!
-Amsterdam – Ride bikes, couple of coffee shops, Anne Frank House.
-Berlin Wall – topography of terror, Climb the Reichstag, Try visit an abandoned theme park.
-Prague Beer Spa, Charles Bridge, Prague Castle(?)
-Krakow – Auschwitz
-Budapest House of Terror , Ice Bar, Thermal Bath
-Vienna Castles? Unsure here.
-Munich – Unsure if we should hire a car or do a tour to Neuschwanstein Castle and Linderhof Palace. Maybe BMW museum if she lets me drag her into it
-Venice gondola
- Rome Colosseum, Trevi Fountain

Sorry this is so long!
So that’s pretty much it. Not sure if its worth hiring a car to go from Venice – Rome and maybe stopping in Pisa for a few hours of something? Or if a train direct would be the best option.
Hopefully I’ve included anything, if you need to know any further details please let me know!

Thanks in advance.

Sorry - but you are counting wrong. In order to have 2 days in a city you need to have 3 nights there. So many of your sights rea really just one day (but I bet you are counting them as 2).

Have you looked at the time necessary for transit from one place to another (train time plus 2 hours for getting to and from hotels and checking in and out)? Are you going to go for early - 7 am trains so you have more sightseeing time in the place you are going? Or taking 7 or 8 pm trains with sandwiches on the trains for dinner to get all of the next day in the city you are headed for?

Second have you considered the time of year you are traveling. The weather will be chilly/cold and rain is frequent. Many other days are grey and the daylight hours are very short that time of year. Also many sights are open shorter hours that they are in the summer.

It's hard for me to relate since my goal in europe is to see every museum, cathedral, castle/palace as well as all of the major sights. So I need much more time in each place. but I do recognize that some people want to travel faster and see much less.

So, I would lay the trip out day by day. listing where you will wake up, what travel there will be that day (and how many hours) and what city you will sleep in. Then figure out what you want to see there and how long it will take (the michelin green guide is great because it rates sights by * and tells you how long it takes to see it).

For instance, you have 2 nights for Paris, which will give you one day which you will spend at Disneyland. You will have zero days for Paris itself unless you add another night.

In London you are spending time on 2 very tacky fake "sights" instead of places with real history. (Although I think I read that the dungeon went out of business).. Why not visit Hampton Court Palace where many of the Tudor intrigues were hatched/executed - including Henry 8 and his 6 wives? But again, since you ave only 1 day in London you barely have time for the Tower (4 hours or so) and a couple of other fly bys.

I'll just give you my opinion of how many days (not nights) you'll need in each of these cities to just "sniff the air". Remember - 2 nights is really only 1 1/4 days in most cases - in November when the days are short and you WILL (not maybe) encounter some weather delays or obstacles.

- Edinburgh - 3 days in November if this is where you start your trip & need to get oriented & recover from jet lag
- Lincoln - no opinion
- London take a train there. 4 days, min.
- Paris 4 days min
- Brussels - skip
- Amsterdam 3 days
- Berlin - we've never visited Berlin
- Prague 2 1/2 days
- Krakow - never visited - a lot of travel for only 1/2 day there
- Budapest 2 1/2 days
- Vienna 2 days
- Munich 2 1/2 days
- Venice 2 1/2 days
- Rome 3 days.

Note that 2 1/2 days is really 3 nights, and 4 days is most likely 5 nights. You need to assume/budget that weather, strikes, "emergencies", etc will set you back 1 night in one or two of these places.

If this was my trip, I would only book accommodations up through Paris, and then determine how the pace fits you.

I sure would try to find a way to ditch the car in Edinburgh & take some kind of public transportation in November - especially that far north.

Remember - in Europe lots of shops & other places close on Sundays and many museums are closed 1 day a week.

Stu Dudley

Hey,

Thanks so much. Feeling a bit dumb that we spent over 2 hours planning those nights and we calculated it all wrong! But super glad I posted this now and you were able to pick up on that so thankyou!

Also thank you for the input, we will definitely take that into account. We will base off days needed in each city rather than nights.

Will have another sit down and go through what you've said.
-Stu, thanks for mentioning the booking accommodation up to Paris, we were quite uncertain if we should book all the way through or leave it to be a bit more flexible.

Thanks,
Ash

Here are a few other things you want to consider...
Depending on the rental agency's policy, you may not be able to rent a car. Many agencies will not rent to drivers under 25, and others will charge a surcharge for young drivers. You will not want a car in any city, and if you have never driven on the "other" side of the road, it is something to consider once you leave the UK.

It will probably be cheaper and faster to take the train from Edinburgh to Lincoln and you can take a train from Lincoln to London.

For information on trains in the UK and in Europe look at: seat61.com
There are a lot of youth discounts on trains, so you need to compare fares to see if a railpass is worthwhile

If you are planning on staying at youth hostels you will want to find out about the hours you can come in or go out. Some may have restrictions.

Your trip is for 4-5 weeks. You will need to figure how and when you will do laundry. Not everything can be washed out in the sink, and in the colder months, things will take time to dry. You can go to a laundry .. this will take some time, or if in a hotel you may send it out, which is more expensive especially if you want to do this within a day.

I would not go to Belgium solely for the chocolates. You can buy excellent chocolate in Paris, as well as elsewhere, and some Belgium chocolates are sold in other countries. Many shops will sell you a few pieces, starting at 100 grams which is nice for sampling.

Whether you like the nightlife or are the type to get up at the crack of dawn, sooner or later you will want a lazy day to sleep in or have a leisurely meal. Constant travel can be exhausting. Don't be afraid to give yourself a break.

Regarding the car, I think we were going to keep this plan as we will be staying with an older relative and want the freedom to drive whilst we are there.
I got back from a trip in the US in August and hired a car so not too worried about any other side driving and understand those under 25 surcharges!

Thanks for that website!

I don't think we will be doing hostels, we are budgeting around $300max a night for a room so will work out if its viable to stay in hotels or use airbnb for some spots. Have used airbnb in the past and only had positive experiences so definitely keeping them as an open option. Will also check to make sure wherever we stay offers laundry!

I think we will be skipping Belgium now, does seem a bit petty to try and make a night over it for chocolates haha.


Another question -
Does anyone know if there are any sim cards that allow you to use them through the EU countries without racking up a huge data roaming bill? I'm not phased on any calling or texting, just the data as anyone I would be texting has an iphone so would use data for imessage, and use skype or whatsapp to make phones call, again using data.

Thanks!

What Greece has to do with all this?

Mariha - Didn't realise I selected Greece. Was a mistake.

Hi asha94,

Maybe you can ask the mods to remove the tag for Greece and add United Kingdom and Italy.

On my last trip 2014 honestly I did not need a sim card with my IPhone since there is wifi almost everywhere and you can previously download offline maps from Citymaps2go. It worked really well for me. However I am also traveling to Europe this year and searching for a sim card for data access all times for this to feel sure if I get lost. On what I have searched as of today, it is important to know that some companies are limited to data in only some cities and not have access everywhere you are traveling. You can checkup in their website a list of cities. Since you are traveling for so many days you can consider a sim card from a company in Europe. Sorry I cant help you in this but my sons experience was that they are not that cheap and don't receive maximum for what you purchase. Have a nice trip!

By the way asha94 don't feel dumb about your list of places because my first list was 20 cities in 20 days and I've been modifying since then ;-)

Stu

Can you refrain of writing 'Brussels - skip'.
Just write 'I didn't like it'.

Some people do like Bruxelles. I do for one, but I'm biased since I live 20 kms from it. Nevertheless I'm bored to see people arrogant enough to dismiss one beautiful city, for whatever reasons. Which might be ok for them.

Thanks.

With the new roaming rules, cost of using a SIM from one EU country in another EU country is a lot lower than before:
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/roaming-tariffs

I don't think it is necessary to buy a different SIM in each country anymore unless you use a lot of data. As stated above you can usually find free wifi wherever you go, and make VoiP calls from wifi hotspots. Were it me I would buy a SIM in your first country and use it until you run out of data.

I get the part of you being a "take the photo and move on" person, but the schedule you lay out is bound to wear you out and frustrate you. Slow down a bit, add extra nights, reduce number of cities. Program laundry/rest days.

A few general planning comments:

1. Your travel time frame could include the opening of Christmas markets along much of your itinerary, if that is of interest.
2. Plan for inconsistent weather. November across Central Europe can be gray and miserable or sunny and mild or anything in between.
3. Plot your itinerary on a calendar. As someone above mentioned, many museums are closed one day each week (usually Mondays, but not always). Also check for any public holidays. In Austria, for example, 1 and 2 November are public holidays and just about everything will be closed.

A couple of specific comments for Vienna:
1. There are no castles in Vienna. Presumably you are referring to palaces, of which the three most-frequented by tourists are Hofburg (the former Imperial Palace); Schloss Schönbrunn (the former Imperial summer palace); and Schloss Belvedere (Prince Eugene of Savoy's summer residence). Touring these three palaces could easily take your entire time in Vienna. Other often-visited palaces include Prince Eugene's Winter Palace, and the city and garden palaces of the Liechtenstein Family.
2. In Vienna (and throughout Austria), stores, including groceries close early on weekdays (2000) and Saturdays (1800) and are closed on Sundays and holidays.

Happy Planning!

Your trip looks like a fly-by of European cities and if that is what you want to do, it is your money.

If you want to see something, I would only go to 4 cities and actually spend some time in each. I assume you are young enough to go to Europe a few times. As others have said just traveling between places eats up most of the day and by the time you get to the hotel, you have taken up the rest of the time.

As far as your choices in London, they are really touristy cheesy places that I've never been to in 20 trips to London. London is great for museums and the theater and the tours provided by London Walks. The Eye and Madame Tussaud's are really overated!

Even with a take a photo and move on mentality, you have too many places with too short a time.

I would really study that list of 14 places and think about why you have picked them. And try to cross off at least 4-5 of them and add the time to the remaining stops.

As others have mentioned you need to include the travel time getting from place to place, checking out of and into hotels, waiting for flights or trains, making the train journey or flight, taxi or public transportation to your next hotel, etc. You don't seem to have allowed for any of those very necessary activities.

Hi

I've never done a trip like this and never would. However,it's your money.

I agree with the advice above to plan out each day after researching actual train travel times. On a calendar so you can see where you will be on any given day. This will help you know if what you want to do or see will be open on that day. It will also help you decide if the time in each destination is worth the cost in money and travel time needed to get there. It should help greatly to put your plans into perspective and then you can make a decision that good for you!

I also agree with the idea to not book anything further than Paris. You just may toss the whole plan out the train window and restart after a week or two.

Happy planning!

You said you like war stuff, so Google the Imperial War Museum and the Churchill Museum in London to see if you would like to add those to your itinerary. Wait until you are in London to decide if you will have a clear view before deciding on the London Eye. It's very weather dependent.

First.. YES to Imperial War Museum.. it opened an new World War section that is beyond excellent.. really , I had little expectation of this museum.. but we ended up spending most of a day there.. it was that interesting.

As for bulk of your trip.. yikes.

Two nights equals one full day at a place. If a place is in your mind only worth one full day.. perhaps its not worth squishing into your trip.

Every time you move it costs time and money.

My dd and her friend are doing about 10-11 weeks starting this spring.. ( she is young too ).. they have chosen a few cites in particular that other young backpackers have raved about ( ie Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin) and eliminated a few dream destinations because of timing and budget logistics ( Venice and Switzerland)..and of course are doing some of the traditional big sight cities.. ie London, Paris and Rome.

They are going to be there in late spring, early summer, so are also hitting the beachy island in Greece and Spain .

They have spend hours working out the logistics, their intial " or we will go from here to here" were often thwarted by train or plane schedules... or prices.

So do lots of research to make it work out. you can always wing it when you get there.. but keep in mind often booking some things ahead mean getting the better deals, and not ending up in some hotel that looks decent online .. but then you find out the area is sketchy or inconvenient.

A car is useless in most large cities.. do not even think about taking it into London, Paris or Rome.. really.