cocobana

We are going to Europe (from Australia) in September and would love feedback on our plans...
Four nights in London to explore, then a week in Germany-Cologne to Nuremberg (work commitments) 3 nights in Prague via Train? And maybe a day trip to Vienna while there..on to Berlin via train/fly? 2 nights there then train to Amsterdam for 2 nights on to. Brussels via Rotterdam... 2 nights Brussels train to Paris fro three nights, train to lyon for 1/2 nights then Barcelona for 2/3 nights back to London for two then home via Dubai 2 nights stopover..
We want to do it all but are we being unrealistic? Thinking Trains will be faster mostly...

nytraveler

Yes, "doing it all" as you have described is really not doing anything at all. You will have a very comprehensive tour of the train stations of europe.

You have simply not allowed for time to get from one place to another (1/2 to a full day) or for the fact that two nights in a city is really only one full day.

You have listed 15 (at least) sights in 30 days (how many places in Germany in unclear). So, when you deduct the time for traveling from one place to another you have a grand total of one day in each place. Trying to see London, Paris, Berlin, Prague or Barcelona in one day is close to madness. And if ANYTHING goes wrong - a one-day train strike or an accident or whatever - your entire itinerary will be lost.

You really need to rethink your entire approach or you will have spent a lot of time and a LOT of money and come out of it having seen little and remembering less.

Sassafrass

Random thoughts.

The itinerary you have is not realistic. Right now, you are doing some traveling about 10 days out of your month, each time using up about 1/2 day or more.

Pin down your time in each city. Pick your favorite 3 or 4 places. Decide what you want to see and do there and roughly how much time you will need. Work from that to fill in the rest of your itinerary. No matter how energetic you are, such a long trip needs some down time. Allow some time to sit at cafes and enjoy simply being there.

Barcelona, for example, for 2 (or 3) nights gives only 1 (or 2) days for sightseeing. 3 nights would be a minimum.

Paris needs as much time as you can give, but 4 nights (3 days) would be an absolute minimum and you might want time for Versailles as well.

Start mapping your time out realistically and include travel time, including time getting from hotel to airport or train station and time getting from airport or train station to next hotel.

Vienna is too far for a good day trip from Prague.

Study your routing carefully?

Can you fly into one city and out of another to save backtracking to London?

If you must fly out of London, put all your time in London together at the end, if possible.

Train works for some of your trip, plane is better for other legs of it.

cocobana

We have three days in London then a full day to get to cologne. We have 2 days in cologne one day for travel to Nuremberg then two full days there. One day to travel to Prague then two full days there. Berlin is a short stay yes as we have work meeting in Amsterdam. We do need to readjust from here as you say and I guess prioritise what's important. I would have thought given our time constraints three days in London was enough and I simply did not want to miss Prague. For me Paris is a huge attraction so maybe we should stay there and consider Lyon as a short trip if we feel up for it...after all we only have a week or so on this end.. It is hard as we are so time limited. It is hard to plan when you haven't been before..

lauren_s_kahn

You simply will have to miss some things. I have been traveling to Europe for over 40 years and still have not been to Prague. The way to "do" Europe is to do it small bits at a time.

For example, I flew over this summer on June 12th from the US for a largely home exchange/home hospitality based trip. In 9 weeks I am doing the following: Krakow (5 nights home hospitality)-Warsaw (10 nights home exchange)-Brest, Belarus (4 nights in hotels)-Minsk, Belarus (2 nights in hotels)-Istanbul (3 1/2 weeks home exchange)-Stockholm (2 1/2 weeks home exchange). Istanbul and Stockholm are both revisits.

He who invests in a Eurail pass will certainly ride a lot of long distance trains. He will learn what all the train stations in all the big cities of Europe look like. However, he will never stay in any large city long enough to see what it looks like.

I would suggest that, since this is your first trip, you concentrate on about 5-6 large cities and give them about a week each. Packing and unpacking quickly gets old when you have to do it every 1-4 days. People get grouchy. London and Paris each deserve a week. You pick the other cities. Then, when you can, you return to see what you missed.

By the way, I would not suggest any of the destinations I am doing for the first time traveler. They are all interesting, but, if this were my first trip, I would concentrate on London-Paris-Rome-Berlin-Vienna.

And do consider flying between destinations. Trains can be more expensive than flying and I, for one, never get a lot of sleep on a train even if I am in a sleeping car. You skip the hotel and arrive in the morning needing to sleep. Trains, even the high speed ones, are not always as clean as they should be. On my current trip, there are only 2 train rides (Krakow to Warsaw and Brest to Minsk). Flying between European destinations saves valuable time as well.

It's your choice, but running around all over turns the trip into a forced march instead of a vacation.

In 40 years of European travel (not every summer until I retired recently), I still have not set foot in Ireland or Greece or visited Prague, Barcelona or Grenada. You have to have things on your list, you know. You go one place, you put two more on your list. Next summer looks as if the first destination will be in The Netherlands, so I probably still will not get to any of my "missed" destinations.

janisj

>>We have three days in London<<

You have 1 jet lagged/useless day and 2 more -- part of the last being spent packing and getting ready to move on the next morning.

>>I would have thought given our time constraints three days in London was enough <<

'Enough' for what? It is the largest city in western Europe (larger than most of your other stops - combined). If you just want to say you've been there and only want to visit 3 or 4 major sites - than yes, 2+ days is 'enough'. I do see you've stuck 2 more nights back in London at the end of your trip -- which adds ONE day not two. Splitting London into two stays complicates things and means you are staying over 6 nights but only netting about 3 useable days there. A lot of expense for very little bang.

IMO You should either fly open jaw (In to one city and home from another) so you don't have to back track . . . OR . . . upon landing in London immediately fly off to another destination, finishing up in London for 6 nights (at least).

I'd try to eliminate most of your 2-nighters. They only net you one full day in that city. If a city is 'worth' visiting it generally merits 3 nights/2 days. There are some exceptions - cities where you can see a lot in 2 nights/one day. Brussels might fall in that category. I'd seriously consider dropping Barcelona since it is the major outlier.

adrienne

I think this is what you have planned. It's so much easier to view without extraneous words and without putting everything in a paragraph.

Day 1 – arrive London – 2.5 days
Day 4 – travel to Cologne (2 days Cologne)
Day 7 – travel to Nuremburg (2 days Nuremburg)
Day 10 - travel to Prague (2 days Prague)
Day 13 - Berlin (2 nights)
Day 15 - Amsterdam (2 nights)
Day 17 - Brussels (2 nights)
Day 19 - Paris (3 nights)
Day 22 - lyon (1/2 nights)
Day 24 - Barcelona (2/3 nights)
Day 27 - London (2 nights)
Day 29 - home via Dubai 2 nights stopover

I would cut out Berlin and Brussels (and possibly Lyon) and spend more time in London and Paris. Any reason you're not flying home from Barcelona? It would be easier without going back to London and you'd have more time.

StCirq

This is a great itinerary for someone doing research on European train stations. As a vacation, it doesn't work so well. Look at adrienne's suggestions, and then keep cutting and remember that 2 nights = 1 single day.

kja

"are we being unrealistic?"

IMO, yes.

Get a couple of really good guidebooks, think through what YOU want to see and do in each city, check opening hours, and plot your highest priorities out on a calendar.

Then consider the time to get between cities -- the time for the transportation itself plus at least 2 hours on either side for getting to/from the train station, packing/unpacking, checking in/out, getting oriented.

And then decide what you will and won't try to visit.

The good news: You can see some wonderful things. Just not all of it.

Cranachin

For a trip that long, you definitely need to build in days for down time. That doesn't necessarily mean you do absolutely nothing, but it does mean you take it easy. You'll thank yourself later!

Also, when/how are you planning to do laundry? Spending only 2 nights in many places seems like it will complicate that task.

Definitely plan out what you want to see, and know WHY you want to see it. That will help you decide what to drop if you need to. It will also help you add things if you find out you have extra time or need to change plans.

And pay attention to details. Look at not only your dates in each place but also the days of the week. For example, if you have two days in a city, but one of them is a Monday and everything you want to see that day will be closed, it's better to know now (so you can adjust your plans) than when you arrive. And check websites, not just guidebooks, to get current info.

annhig

cocbana - I'm a bit confused - Adrienne has set out in tabular form what looks like your itinerary but instead of a week in Germany, it looks as if you've only got 4 days. Is that right? what are your fixed points? [ie the work commitments that you can't re-arrange]. once you've put those down, we can begin to see what your realistic options are.

ssander

For a month-long vacation, I would not visit more than five cities. My possible suggestion -- and it is strictly personal, beacuse you have to decide what things you want to do and see based on personal interests, not a check-off list -- is:

<strong>London</strong> (incl. a day-trip) (7 nights)
---- train to Paris ~4 hrs hotel to hotel + 1 hr time change
<strong>Paris</strong> (incl. a day-trip) (7 nights)
---- train to Amsterdam ~5 hrs hotel to hotel
<strong>Amsterdam</strong> (incl. day-trip to Haarlem) (5 nights)
---- plane to Berlin</strong> ~half-day hotel to hotel
<strong>Berlin</strong> (6 nights)
---- plane or train to Prague ~half-day hotel to hotel
<strong>Prague</strong> (4 nights)

(then fly back to London or do an open jaw from Prague).

adrienne

ann - I might have gotten it a bit wrong as it was a difficult to figure out when plans are jumbled together in a paragraph but it looks like 8 days in Germany when you count days on trains.

Germany would include days 4 to 9 (6 days), then Prague, then Berlin for 2 days. I did not enter every day but skipped when the OP is at the same destination for multiple days so you have Day 1 then skipping to Day 4, etc.

adrienne

They have to spend 2 days in Nuremberg for work.

Gretchen

Thanks for the above--I wondered about Cologne and Nuremberg, in the big scheme of things to do and see in Germany!
Nightmare of a trip.

annhig

ann - I might have gotten it a bit wrong as it was a difficult to figure out when plans are jumbled together in a paragraph but it looks like 8 days in Germany when you count days on trains.>>

thanks, adrienne - i know it's difficult when the original plan isn't that clear! I'm waiting for the OP to come back with some clearer info before I chip in with my two pen'oth.

lauren_s_kahn

This type of trip is the same old story with first timers. They want to "do it all" thinking they might never return. I did a Eurail trip to London-Rome-Lucerne-Vienna-Paris-Amsterdam-Copenhagen-Edinburgh-London when I was 24. I did it in 5 1/2 weeks. It was nuts, but I was young. I would never do that now and am happy to currently be in a home exchange apartment in Beygolu Istanbul for 3 1/2 weeks. Very slow travel is my bag these days.

Different strokes for different folks, but I will say this, on about the 2nd day of a minutely planned "do it all" trip, the initial schedule is usually trashed due to exhaustion.