Depressed dolphin a tourist attraction??
Jan 9th, 2004, 03:16 PM
#41
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Ginger, I'm trying to figure out what you mean by people 'raising their dogs in crates'. Are you referring to people who keep their dogs in houses rather than letting them run free? Enlighten me, please.
Feb 3rd, 2004, 08:07 PM
#42
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The latest (Feb 3rd, 2004) about Howard the dolphin, story from the Edmonton Journal (the local newspaper):
"EDMONTON - The conditions Howard the dolphin lives in at West Edmonton Mall are the worst a dolphin behaviour specialist has seen in North America.
Toni Frohoff, a specialist on stress in dolphins for 20 years, was brought to the city by a coalition of animal rights groups. She said the mall's dolphin facility was worse than she had expected when she visited it Sunday.
"As a biologist, I was really shocked to see the conditions Howard is living in," Frohoff said.
"I was surprised, even though I knew this was a dolphin living alone in a mall, to see the challenging conditions he is living in."
Frohoff said harsh lighting and excessive noise contribute to Howard's stress, which in turn negatively affects his health."
For the rest of the story, see the Edmonton Journal website at:
http://www.canada.com/edmonton/news/...E-74352C339516
"EDMONTON - The conditions Howard the dolphin lives in at West Edmonton Mall are the worst a dolphin behaviour specialist has seen in North America.
Toni Frohoff, a specialist on stress in dolphins for 20 years, was brought to the city by a coalition of animal rights groups. She said the mall's dolphin facility was worse than she had expected when she visited it Sunday.
"As a biologist, I was really shocked to see the conditions Howard is living in," Frohoff said.
"I was surprised, even though I knew this was a dolphin living alone in a mall, to see the challenging conditions he is living in."
Frohoff said harsh lighting and excessive noise contribute to Howard's stress, which in turn negatively affects his health."
For the rest of the story, see the Edmonton Journal website at:
http://www.canada.com/edmonton/news/...E-74352C339516
Feb 5th, 2004, 06:05 AM
#43
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Something's missing from the story. Why is Howard in the mall in the first place? Is this a sales gimmick?
I looked back at the irate postings, and it seems nothing anyone planned to fo actually every happened. Did the poster(s) who knew all the media people ever get a call back? Whats happening on that initiative, which seemed like a real threat. Did people stop shopping at that mall?
It seems like everybodys pretty worked up over Howards deal, but nothing seems to get this problem solved. Lots of teeth gnashing, and thats about it.
I looked back at the irate postings, and it seems nothing anyone planned to fo actually every happened. Did the poster(s) who knew all the media people ever get a call back? Whats happening on that initiative, which seemed like a real threat. Did people stop shopping at that mall?
It seems like everybodys pretty worked up over Howards deal, but nothing seems to get this problem solved. Lots of teeth gnashing, and thats about it.
Feb 5th, 2004, 06:55 AM
#44
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>>>>>>Why is Howard in the mall in the first place?<<<<<<
>>>>>>It seems like everybodys pretty worked up over Howards deal, but nothing seems to get this problem solved. Lots of teeth gnashing, and thats about it.<<<<<<
Yes, Nor, that's exactly the point. It takes a lot of time and effort to overcome the inertia in our society. There are many pitiful causes that deserve our attention (AIDS orphans in Africa and on and on and on). Howard, the dolphin in the West Edmonton Mall, has to line up behind a lot of other suffering beings to get our attention and, more importantly, our ACTION.
We humans have a long history of exploiting animals for entertainment. Heck, it was a relatively short time ago that we were using PEOPLE for the same purpose (when deformed people were put on display in freak shows, etc.).
We are SLOWLY shedding these unfortunate tastes, but there is a lot more work yet to be done before the abuse of animals for entertainment has been eliminated.
Indeed there is a lot more work to be done before the abuse of animals for many other purposes has been eliminated.
One of my pet causes is the enforcement of rules that govern the treatment of rodeo animals. But I'll spare you my usual lecture on that topic.
>>>>>>It seems like everybodys pretty worked up over Howards deal, but nothing seems to get this problem solved. Lots of teeth gnashing, and thats about it.<<<<<<
Yes, Nor, that's exactly the point. It takes a lot of time and effort to overcome the inertia in our society. There are many pitiful causes that deserve our attention (AIDS orphans in Africa and on and on and on). Howard, the dolphin in the West Edmonton Mall, has to line up behind a lot of other suffering beings to get our attention and, more importantly, our ACTION.
We humans have a long history of exploiting animals for entertainment. Heck, it was a relatively short time ago that we were using PEOPLE for the same purpose (when deformed people were put on display in freak shows, etc.).
We are SLOWLY shedding these unfortunate tastes, but there is a lot more work yet to be done before the abuse of animals for entertainment has been eliminated.
Indeed there is a lot more work to be done before the abuse of animals for many other purposes has been eliminated.
One of my pet causes is the enforcement of rules that govern the treatment of rodeo animals. But I'll spare you my usual lecture on that topic.
Feb 5th, 2004, 07:34 AM
#45
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Whats confusing is all the bellowing about keeping friends away form the mall and taking to the big media outlets, and then nothing happens, because whoever's venting dabbles is just being PC. That kind of phoniness doesnt actually help your cause or poor Howard.
Feb 5th, 2004, 08:27 AM
#46
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I disagree with you, Nor. Your dismissing attempts to bring attention to Howard the dolphin's dilemma are arguments that were used to dismiss attempts to bring attention to human slavery, the exclusion of women from the franchise, the exclusion of blacks from the franchise in apartheid era South Arica, and so on.
However, since Fodors has asked us to concentrate our discussions on travel, it probably would be safer for me to bow out of this discussion at this point.
If anyone wants to discuss this with me in more depth, please feel free to e-mail me.
However, since Fodors has asked us to concentrate our discussions on travel, it probably would be safer for me to bow out of this discussion at this point.
If anyone wants to discuss this with me in more depth, please feel free to e-mail me.
Feb 5th, 2004, 09:14 AM
#47
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I have been following this thread for sometime,and being a native Edmontonian, I figured it was time to throw in my two-cents worth.
As jammoi put it "At WEM their environment is maintained at ideal conditions. They are fed, recieve expert veterinary care, and have the constant attention and compainionship of trainers who care for them very much. They are not allowed to suffer."
This seems to me to be a terribly misleading impression of the conditions that poor Howard is in. I saw a local news report about the dolphins kept at WEM sometime in fall 2003. One of the causes attributed to Mavis' death is the fact that people actually throw coins into the dolphin tank. The dolphins, not knowing better, ingest the coins and become ill. How can it possibly be stated that at WEM "the environment is maintained at ideal conditions"?
This statement could not be further from the truth.
As jammoi put it "At WEM their environment is maintained at ideal conditions. They are fed, recieve expert veterinary care, and have the constant attention and compainionship of trainers who care for them very much. They are not allowed to suffer."
This seems to me to be a terribly misleading impression of the conditions that poor Howard is in. I saw a local news report about the dolphins kept at WEM sometime in fall 2003. One of the causes attributed to Mavis' death is the fact that people actually throw coins into the dolphin tank. The dolphins, not knowing better, ingest the coins and become ill. How can it possibly be stated that at WEM "the environment is maintained at ideal conditions"?
This statement could not be further from the truth.
Feb 5th, 2004, 11:01 AM
#48
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This is still not clear why is Howard at the mall? Why doesn't somebody take him away if its such a raw deal? Or perhaps people in that community ought to just make the best of it, Howard could be useful as an educational tool for kids who will never have the chance to swim with one. And as long as Howard remains at the Mall, he cannot be harvested for food and listed on some restaurant's fish menu.
Feb 5th, 2004, 07:29 PM
#49
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Atilla - if you live in Edmonton I'm surprised that you missed the story about Howard this week (carried by CBC and the Edmonton Journal).
Hopefully the link that I provided above will still work today, and you can read the opinion of an expert - a biologist - regarding the conditions that WEM provides its animals.
Since WEM uses the dolphin as a tourist attraction, I think that it is fair game to critize it on this forum.
I also live in Edmonton, and I do my part by not shopping or taking visitors to West Edmonton Mall.
It is cruel to have a dolphin on display in a noisy brightly lit shopping mall. What sort of "education" does that provide children - that they should take advantage of everything that they can just for a buck - even if it causes suffering??!!
How appalling!! And how sad that there are people who actually believe that this is good.
Hopefully the link that I provided above will still work today, and you can read the opinion of an expert - a biologist - regarding the conditions that WEM provides its animals.
Since WEM uses the dolphin as a tourist attraction, I think that it is fair game to critize it on this forum.
I also live in Edmonton, and I do my part by not shopping or taking visitors to West Edmonton Mall.
It is cruel to have a dolphin on display in a noisy brightly lit shopping mall. What sort of "education" does that provide children - that they should take advantage of everything that they can just for a buck - even if it causes suffering??!!
How appalling!! And how sad that there are people who actually believe that this is good.
Feb 6th, 2004, 07:22 AM
#50
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Hi Borealis, I'm not sure if my comment from earlier has been misinterpretted, but, I could not agree with you more, Howard's conditions are appalling. In re-reading my earlier posting, I realised how misleading it sounds.
I'm sorry, I did miss the CBC broadcast, but I will check out the link you posted.
Thanks
I'm sorry, I did miss the CBC broadcast, but I will check out the link you posted.
Thanks
Feb 9th, 2004, 11:47 AM
#52
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There has been plenty of bad press concerning Howard, there have also been billboards and various outdoor signage concerning Howard. Trying to make a conglomeration like WEM do the right thing is like trying to stop a war. That didn't work either, did it?
May 25th, 2004, 09:19 AM
#53
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I'm just topping this thread because I read in the Toronto Globe and Mail this morning that Howard the dolphin has finally been transferred away from the West Edmonton Mall. He was sent to some sort of wild animal park in Florida. I'm not sure how much of an improvement this will be for him but at least he will be with other dolphins. The park officials commented that they aren't sure how much Howard will be expected to participate in the shows they put on. Let's hope they just leave the poor guy alone.
May 25th, 2004, 08:45 PM
#54
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Thanks Meesthare - I must have been half asleep this morning because I missed the story in the Globe and Mail.
Good to know that the folks at West Edmonton Mall finally did the right thing.
Good to know that the folks at West Edmonton Mall finally did the right thing.
so he can be old in comfort LOL
May 26th, 2004, 05:14 PM
#56
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It's called Theatre of the Sea and it's a marine mammal park in Florida. The article can be found in the Toronto Globe and Mail website (www.theglobeandmail.com) and if you do a search under "dolphin" the story will come up. It doesn't sound like the ideal spot for poor Howard, but hopefully he won't be so lonely there.
May 30th, 2004, 05:24 AM
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It's in Islamorada in the Florida Keys. Drove past it last month. The water's gorgeous down there and it sounds like he'll be in a lagoon with many more things to interest him. I wonder if your paper will do a follow-up story on him?
Here is their mission statement:
"To provide a wonderful home for our animals while sharing them with visitors in ways that inspire awareness and sensitivity towards animals, the environment, and conservation issues.
Theater of the Sea is an educational and entertaining marine animal park where shows are up close and personal and the animals live in natural salt-water lagoons.
The lagoons and lush, tropical gardens at the facility are home to Atlantic bottlenose dolphins, California sea lions, sea turtles, tropical and game fish, sharks, stingrays, crocodiles, alligators, marine invertebrates, and birds-of-prey.
While some of our animals were collected and others were born here, many are non releasable as a result of imprinting and/or injuries sustained in the wild. The health and well being of the animals takes precedence over all other interests and their care and maintenance is supported by patronage alone."
Here is their mission statement:
"To provide a wonderful home for our animals while sharing them with visitors in ways that inspire awareness and sensitivity towards animals, the environment, and conservation issues.
Theater of the Sea is an educational and entertaining marine animal park where shows are up close and personal and the animals live in natural salt-water lagoons.
The lagoons and lush, tropical gardens at the facility are home to Atlantic bottlenose dolphins, California sea lions, sea turtles, tropical and game fish, sharks, stingrays, crocodiles, alligators, marine invertebrates, and birds-of-prey.
While some of our animals were collected and others were born here, many are non releasable as a result of imprinting and/or injuries sustained in the wild. The health and well being of the animals takes precedence over all other interests and their care and maintenance is supported by patronage alone."
May 7th, 2005, 10:49 AM
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Sadly, Howard the dolphin has died. I have posted my opinion on the matter on my blog http://drew-who.blogspot.com
May 20th, 2005, 08:56 AM
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I visited WEM many years ago and upon seeing the dolphins, the show and their pond I refused to spend any money in the mall or to ever return. I also boycott Marinland or any other Dolphin or whale show parks for the same reason. When I want to see the dolphins or whale, I will go to the ocean and see them in their natural environment. It is so much nicer to see the dorsal fin of the Orca standing straight up (proud and free), rather than bent over (and depressed) as the captive Orca's fins are.
