Hunting in Tsavo East National Park

Reply

Aug 22nd, 2004, 03:03 PM
  #1
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,478
Hunting in Tsavo East National Park

"As the giraffe stretched to nibble at an acacia tree, something alien tightened around its neck.

Fifteen feet off the ground, a wire snare held the animal taut.

But fate smiled on wildlife that day. The snare, a winch cable with 9,000- pound tension, was old and weak. With a few thrusts of its one-ton frame, the giraffe snapped the snare from its base around the tree and ran off into the bush, noose still dangling from its neck."

Read the rest of the story here http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGIL8A8341.DTL

sundowner is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 22nd, 2004, 03:51 PM
  #2
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
Aaaargh! Another very good reason to become a vegetarian.

Speaking of Rukinga, I saw the cute
t-shirts at REI today and noticed they went to a good cause so I bought three of them. What a coincidence! Their on-line store is:

http://www.wildlife-works.com

You know something, humans just seem to eat anything or everything they can. There have been a couple of N.G. documetaries on the bushmeat trade which have been horrible to watch. Heads and body parts of chimps and gorillas for sale. Heads and body parts of little dik-diks and various other antelope and animals.

The laws have to be more stringent for these poachers. With the world population growing the way it is, I don't know if viewing these animals outside of zoos is going to be possible in another 50 years. What a shame!

Since "culling" and "sport" hunting seem to be the choices for not letting animals populate the way they should, would someone please enlighten me as to what is being done to control the human population growth? Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks a little too double standard-ish to me!

There is a website that many of you might be interested on the bushmeat trade. It is the Bushmeat Crisis Task Force and the link is:

http://www.bushmeat.org/
divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 22nd, 2004, 04:31 PM
  #3
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
Ok, I read this. What a mess everything is all over it seems. I would suggest for now is. Go to the Sheldrick's site. Donate to the de-snaring teams. That money will go to that. Nothing else! It is harmless to do this on-line. Because of Jan Goss. I do this now. I love tsavo east. It is my fav place. If you can go, go! Visit and spend your money, pass the word around. If you can't go. Then give to the sheldick's foundation.
No need to spend your stay at these places in what we called in zimbabwe:
puff-lodges. Use the extra money for donations or staying longer. Whatever you think is best.
When the story broke of the baby ele in AMBOSLEI getting speared, then dying. The mobile vet unit of sheldrick and the kws did all that work. So, I asked Angela Sheldrick can I donate to the VET UNIT? I asked that because in the site there is no place to donate to that option. She mailed back saying. Just send me the invoice number, I will see that it goes into the vet account.
Good thing to do. Even if a few of us do this or even visit. It helps.
Maybe it is just a slow death all the things on this planet. I don't know. Some times I am just stunned at what I see and hear. Look at what we do to each other. Never mind about a dog, ele, croc, ect. If people don't care about each other. Why would they care about these other things. Kinda sick isn't it?
keep our fingers crossed.
david
tuskerdave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 22nd, 2004, 06:10 PM
  #4
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 592
Sundowner:

Thanks so much for sharing this site. I have known well about this but it is important for more to be aware.

Daphne Sheldrick now have FIVE desnaring teams daily checking the borders of the park. They do an incredible job. Sad to say, I saw very few dik dik there this year. There were a lot at Samburu though. The dik dik is as small as the average house cat. They mate for life. Thus if one is snared the other will be mateless for the duration of their life so the population can't rebound easily.

Snaring is not only for the natives to eat. It is a large commercial business now. Much of it is being used to make dog meat for sale abroad. I was also told that many of the western African countries who no longer have any wildlife of their own, buy the bushmeat because they still have a taste for certain foods. The average person hasn't yet figured out that when their wildlife is gone, and it will be in 15 -20 years, their economy will plumet even further.

Jan

I don't think any reasonable person would object to a person killing one impala or antelope to feed his starving family. However, this is being done on such large scale now that it is truly worrisome.

Divewop - thanks for sharing that website. Will purchase some things from it in the future.
JanGoss is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 09:45 AM
  #5
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
Three more elephants destroyed by the KWS on the following link.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200408230763.html

"And after the rangers removed tusks from the fallen jumbos, it was all joy as the villagers closed in with pangas and axes to get a share of the meat.

The villagers almost fought as they disagreed on how much meat each should carry home.

Even before the beasts were felled, women carried baskets as their male colleagues toted polythene bags and machete in readiness for the windfall."

Looks like the greedy maasai wasted no time in benefiting from the death of these guys!

Personally, I think the eles are trying to exact revenge on how they've been treated and chased out of their habitats. Now only if we could somehow arm them w/ spears or guns so they could fight back properly. Only then would I think it would be a fair fight!

divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 10:35 AM
  #6
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 988

Divewop,
No where in that article did it say Maasai were involved. From the names mentioned and locations, I would guess they are Kikuyu. Ngugu wa Thiongo certainly is Kikuyu.

Poaching and snaring is a far different circumstance than elephants invading homes and residential areas. Sad, but scenario would most likely have been similar had this happened in the US.

Seems like Maasai have gotten a bad rap on the board today. There are well over 30 tribes in Kenya alone. Many people are involved, with no easy solutions in sight.
Queenie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 01:07 PM
  #7
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
You're right Queenie,
The article didn't state it was the Maasai. I guess I got a little too passionate about the killings. And I do have friends in Kenya that belong to the Maasai tribe so I am not trying to single them out.

I do however, believe that there are reasons animals act like they do and for elephants to go on rampages like they did in the article had to be for a reason.

I know what would have happened to them in the U.S. It's always been the case to shoot first and ask questions later. But the villagers in the article did get what they wanted out of it. See below:

"The human hounds decided not to wait for the carcass. By the time the elephants breathed their last, little of their bodies had any flesh on them."

Rapacious villagers had cruelly parceled out chunks of meat into polythene bags from whatever quarter their knives and pangas could cut from creatures still resisting death from a hail of police bullets.

A man shouldered away the giant tail he had hacked off from a still-breathing elephant; a middle-aged woman, resolutely unmoved by the painful whimpers and pitiable movements of an elephant's eyes, filled her bag with a bloody steak. It was a macabre feast that would send the average animal rights crusader into prolonged mourning."

I cannot in my mind, understand how humans can behave so viciously. Not only do animals suffer from inhumane treatment, but so do the rest of us.

I guess you could call me one of the "average animal rights crusaders"!
And very proud of it!!
divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 03:56 PM
  #8
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THESE PLACES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL OVER FOR THAT MATTER. THIS IS SO DAMN SICK. THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN POACHERS. I KNEW I WAS RIGHT NOT GIVING A CRAP ABOUT SEEING THE PEOPLE OVER THERE. I GO ON SAFARIS TO SEE THE WILDLIFE. DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED. SOME OF YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. THE MASAI BEING SINGLED OUT BECAUSE OF THE HEARTLESS SPEARING GOING ON IN AMBOSELI!
NOW THIS??!! WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND.WHO EVER WAS DOING THIS. OH MY, YOU DON'T WANT ME TO SAY HERE. I ALREADY TOLD MY GUIDE. IF THOSE MASAI COME NEAR MY CAMP. TELL THEM TO LEAVE AND TELL THEM WHY. THE HARD LOOK IN MY EYES WHEN I GET THERE WILL KILL!
C,MON NOTHING DESREVES THIS CRAP. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW NOW IS. SEEING I HAVE FRIENDS IN THE KWS. IS WHY THE RANGERS DIDN'T PUT THE ANIMAL DOWN COMPLETELY. I AM TROUBLED BY THAT. DOES ANYONE HAVE INFO ON THAT PART? AS YOU CAN SEE, I AM READY TO TAKE A GANG OF MY HARLEY BUDDIES OVER THERE. TEACH THOSE FOOLS A LESSON!
tuskerdave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 04:13 PM
  #9
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
Dave-
I would tell you to calm down but I know how passionate you are about eles. Go to this link to read the story on why the KWS didn't put these guys down easily.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200408231491.html

Apparently they didn't have the right weapons so shame on the KWS! They should know better. I couldn't have stomached watching something this horrific take place!
divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 04:24 PM
  #10
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
I read that BS!!!!! I am on the verge of telling my tour op to change my plans with the kws. F_ _ _ING GREAT! Just before I leave.
They should have more order to control that BS!!!!! NOT ACCEPTABLE AT ALL!
MY ITALIAN TEMPER IS FRYING HOT NOW!
A-HOLES! DON'T THEY KNOW THE WORLD WILL FIND OUT WHAT A BUNCH OF JERKS THEY ARE!
I SAID THIS BEFORE I WILL SAY IT AGAIN. MY ZIMBABWE GUIDE TOLD US IN 1999. IF IT WERE LEFT UP TO THE LOCALS. THEY WOULD WIPE EVERYTHING OUT! I TRUELY BELIEVE THAT NOW. KENYA ONLY HAS A LOUSY 23,000 ELES LEFT. WHATS THE BIG DEAL?
GET OVER IT, AND LIVE WITH THEM.
OH, I WANT TO CRACK A FEW HEADS!
tuskerdave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 23rd, 2004, 04:24 PM
  #11
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
"Four elephants and a calf that had earlier terrorised residents of Lari had inadvertently lost their way back to Aberdare Forest and found themselves in the congested Bibirioni village.

The jumbos have been crossing the area when migrating from the Aberdares to the southern Rift Valley."

So apparently these eles got lost and ended up in the village and wreaked havoc. But it also said in the article that the villagers were chasing them and yelling at them so it probably created an avalanche of terrible events which lead to the eles deaths.

I still believe they were doing what eles do and migrating but unfortunately it lead to their demise.
divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 02:15 AM
  #12
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
this is a reply from my guide james in kenya. he is not feeling well at this time. but he was able to send.


David so do I!i mean i dont believe what is happening this is really serious iam so so angry on what is going on also,i mean there were better ways of using than just cruel killing of the three eles they should have even tranguilize them instead of killing.
David this made me more sick and its not a joke i went to the doctor to test if malaria is gone but surprisingly it is still there and to add on it there are also traces of pneumonia then after seeing and hearing of the Elephants i became more sick so its like i am starting from zero again so i will discuss this with Melinda since its not a simple thing now.
Man what is going on here is just but BAD NEWS WHICH NEEDS SERIOUS ATTENTION .
Good day man

tuskerdave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 11:06 AM
  #13
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618

Hi David,

We're still in Norway, but in close contact with our friends and collaborators
in Nairobi and Amboseli.

Kenya is in a political and economical crisis, which also has huge implications
for KWS and other "players". The situation IS terrible, and it is difficult to
see how it all will end. The elephants and us working within conservation are
facing gigantic challenges.

We still have to believe that things will change...

Cheers, Petter
tuskerdave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 12:18 PM
  #14
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,177
It's far too easy for us to demonize the locals in Africa who do not share our views on wildlife conservation. We sit comfortably in our ivory towers (I use that phrase intentionally) and enjoy our comfortable lives in countries that have already wiped out many of their own native species decades or even centuries ago. We don't have to make a choice between our way of life and conservation, between feeding our family and conservation. We're free of the every day grinding worry that comes with subsistence life styles. We can afford to consider the fate of the planet, of the species we share it with, of biodiversity.

But unless we can give the locals concrete reasons to support conservation it's all just rhetoric.

This is from a page on the David Shepherd Wildlife Foundation's site and is actually about the situation in Uganda and their work to counteract the issues:

As elephants become more habituated, and increase in number, they are returning to previous ranges which have now been settled by humans. The communities are true subsistence farmers and whole livelihoods can be lost in a single night from raiding elephants, often numbering over 100. The costs are enormous to these rural people.

Unless KWS can find ways to ensure that wildlife does not endanger the lives AND livelihoods of local rural people they will never come onboard.

If you look at the success stories of conservation many of them involve finding ways a) to allow locals to share in the profits that can be generated by wildlife tourism and b) to ensure that the wildlife doesn't have a negative impact on their lives and hence gives them no excuse to kill it.

Screeching about how greedy/ cruel the Masaai and other local natives might help vent feelings of frustration and rage but it won't help resolve the problem.
Kavey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 12:20 PM
  #15
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,177
Apologies, the italics should have been turned off after the one paragraph.

The text starting "Unless KWS..." is my own words again.
Kavey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 02:09 PM
  #16
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
On the flipside of that, there are many many more animals' habitats which have been totally destroyed by humans who, because of overpopulation, expanding cities and towns, logging, etc. have encroached upon the territories once roamed by the animals. In every country of the world. Not only has the human species wreaked havoc on land, we are over fishing and destroying the ocean,s eco-systems. But that's another topic.

This in turn, has left less and less space for these animals to live in what once was wide open spaces. Where are they to go?

Humans (including government officials) have got to understand that educating these natives to these issues may be the only way to ensure the animals and natives cohabitating peacefully. The money reward for loss of livestock seemed to work in some places but there have been reports that people (the natives) have gotten greedy on many occasions and had their hands out constantly citing loss of livestock to the wildlife.

Another sad issue is that for every decent person in government trying to resolve these issues, they encounter several other officials that may not be on the up and up. So much of the money meant for conservation may not be going there. Nor for education.

Many of us give considerable amounts of our money to conservations and foundations to help resolve problems and issues due to human growth in the places that were once considered pristine and untouched. Unfortunately, animals just don't understand electric fences, borders, etc. and being confined to living in smaller and smaller areas.

I don't agree with putting animals in zoos except for cases of species survival or breeding purposes. In a perfect world, they are wild animals and should be able to live their lives as they were meant to.

I'm sure none of you would want to live in a 12 x 12 cage or told you can't stray past a certain street or neighborhood or you will be killed. And you would probably be pretty angry if you were confined for reasons you did not understand.

Many of us aren't proud living in countries that have wiped out native species just for our own species growth. No one ever benefits from that.

Until I can get my foot in the door permanently on a more hands on basis in conservation, I will continue to do everything I can and contribute what I can to wildlife and conservation foundations. On the conservation forefront, that includes renovating our little "ivory tower" into an environmentally friendly, earth-craft house. For me, it's the least I can do.
divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 02:12 PM
  #17
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,177
Apologies if I came across rudely, not my intention.
Kavey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 02:15 PM
  #18
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,177
We cross posted!

I'd be very interested (in another thread maybe or in email) to hear about changes to your house!

We switched to a new electricity supplier last year and no one could understand why we'd bother because they are marginally more expensive but ALL rather than just a tiny token percentage of their energy comes from renewable sources.

I'm thinking about what other things we could do and would be interested in hearing about your plans.
Kavey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 02:19 PM
  #19
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,922
Kavey,
I'll email you a couple of things we're doing later on. You're right, on some levels in may be a little more expensive initially to incorporate some of these changes, but it will pay off in the long run energy wise.
divewop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Aug 24th, 2004, 04:01 PM
  #20
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
Hi, this has bugged me all day. There is still no excuse for the butchering those elephants went through sun night.
THEY WERE STILL ALIVE! They were a manic mob nothing else. They acted like savages. That has nothing to do with any kind of hunger, being poor ect. It's just plain heartless and cruel.
They deserve better than what happened.
Makes me think I am the top species!
Yeah right, they should be ashamed!
I'm telling you again. If it were left up to them. They would wipe everything out! What has happened in just a lousy 20 or 30 yrs is not eneough. They want it all gone!
david


tuskerdave is offline  
Reply With Quote
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


FODOR'S VIDEO

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:44 PM.