Hunting in Tsavo East National Park

Aug 24th, 2004, 04:21 PM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
Weeping and Bleeding Alive On The Ground!

Taking the path of the old days
Elephants in Kenya tonight will PAY!
They want peace, they want space
Instead they get AXES AND BULLETS in the face!
The Elephants will hear an sick and heckling sound, while
Weeping and Bleeding Alive On The Ground!

No shame, No soul, No heart
The mob is out to tear them APART!
THEY let the MANIC MOB degrade the KENYA JUMBOS
Why they let them do that
My heart is broke and I can the ELEPHANTS sound
Weeping and Bleeding Alive On The Ground

Shall I go back, after this disgusting act?
Skinned ALIVE while the Elephants CRY!
Butchered with Knifes while THEY stand by!
THEY broke my heart and I Froze of Sound
All I hear and see are Elephants
Weeping and Bleeding Alive On The Ground

My insides tremble with sadness, anger and fear
I will get back at THEM I SWEAR!
Man does not deserve the respect of the Elephants
The Elephants are still in HELL!
May these Locals get stomped to the ground!
Still I will see and hear the Elephants
Weeping and Bleeding Alive On The Ground!

tuskerdave is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 01:50 AM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
from my tour op in kenya,

Hi David,

Its horrible I agree. Unfortunately the police over here have a lot more power than KWS so all KWS can do is to complain about the officers that shot the elllies - they don't have the jurisdiction to be able to arrest them or anything for having done it.

I'll keep you in touch!

All the best,


----- Original Message -----
To: melinda
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:22 AM
Subject: very angry at the moment at kws

melinda, this was brought to my attention on a travel site of all things. I can not believe the kws let these people get away with this crap. I am so angry I wonder if it were possible to change my plans from them. I am angry at the kws and the masai for all their spearing that?s going on in amboseli. my mind is in a circus right now.
I don't care they didn't have the right guns. they should have never let those people do that . It's sick!
have to go now. I can't take anymore tonight.

tuskerdave is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 02:12 AM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 618
ok, I painfuly read that article again. The KWS had nothing to do with felling of these elles. It was the local police.
So, in any event those people BITE!!!!!
I wonder how far away that site is from nairobi, I would go and put a huge pile of flowers right on it!
tuskerdave is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 05:18 AM
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Posts: 49
I wholeheartedly agree with Kavey.

While I am a true conservationist, I take into account that human welfare is part of the general health of the entire planet. It is easy to quickly condemn individuals without understanding the culture and history of those individuals.

For those who want to see what conservation organizations are doing on the ground to combat bushmeat, here's a great link.

Sidenote- I work for Conservation International. I show a video from the Say No to Bushmeat campaign in our monthly Orientation for new employees. It's a horrifying video that makes people cringe and look away. But what we need to remember is that we are horrified because it's not our culture, our way of life.
jen79 is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 05:43 AM
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If you haven't already, please read the article in the latest "Time" magazine entitled Big Cats. Look at the maps and see how the habitats of the animals have shrunk to virutually nothing and then read the plight of what the major predators are facing.

Working for Conservation International, you would understand that if this habitat destruction continues, many of these species will not survive.

There is also and excerpt where it state that most of the natives of Africa consider the animals nothing but pests.

Humans were and are responsible for the habitat destruction and the decimation of species and the only way these animals are going to rebound is with humans help.

No, we don't live in the natives shoes, but to view animals as pests and something to get rid of, is not exactly going to benefit conservation. There are many people living in Africa and other countries that want to do something to help.

Treating animals inhumanely by poaching, cutting chunks of meat off them while still alive, snaring them, poisoning them, etc are barbaric. And I'm sorry, but these people know what they are doing by killing animals with these methods. It should not be a way of life for educated people, or for natives of countries that supposedly "don't know better.

Unfortunately many people get more value for these animals dead than alive and that is a shame. Because once the eco-system starts to decline, man will eventually end up paying for all the wrong-doing he took part in. It is a snowball effect.

divewop is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 06:14 AM
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 49

I will never disagree with all the points you made. There's an acronymn that I always fall back on when thinking about conservation and preservation of biodiversity- one that Edward Wilson developed. HIPPO- with the "h" standing for habitat destruction. But it is only one of many causes.

If we could convince everyone in the world to value biodiversity and nature, exclusive from our ability to exploit it, the world would be a much better place. But that's not a realistic goal that we can hope to achieve in our lifetimes- and we must move forward and do what we can now.

Education is everything- I certainly believe that, just as you do. But let's take the United States for example. Is it an educated country? Most would say yes. But hunting is practically a national past time- deemed "necessary" to control the population of white-tailed deer, but mostly done for sport.
How then do we of "educated" status look down on others who look to make a profit and/or eat from a similiar practice?

Education must include benefits to the environment AND to humans. Pleading with someone about the intrinsic value of an elephant or a tree to someone who is trying to feed their family or improve their socio-economic status, will not always work.

jen79 is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 08:12 AM
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With all due respect, I would not say we are "looking down" at anyone.

Feeding families is a major issue. Education also comes into play there. That is why there is a problem with overpopulation. Many of these so called "uneducated people" don't understand what birth control is. So the animal species including those being threatened or endangered have to suffer the consequences by being hunted or poached for food to feed the growing number of humans.

Animals kill for that very same reason. To eat and to feed their families. Do we look down on them? No we don't because it is a matter of survival and it is what they know. As we don't look down on man if it is all he knows. But the difference is man has the ability to learn how to forge for food by other means.

If people can be taught that the wild animals are worth more alive than dead, that would solve a lot of these issues. We aren't looking down at them because they don't know that. We are looking down at the barbaric and inhumane methods.

And unfortunately, not only the uneducated people are to blame. Many of the body parts of animals are used in the far eastern cultures by highly educated people for medicinal purposes and for aphrodisiacs. Studies have shown they aren't of any use on either front. Unfortunately it continues only because of tradition's sake. So even the educated people need to be educated on some fronts.

As you state and I had stated earlier, education is the key. Humans are "supposedly" the "superior" being and can be taught different ways and means to accomplish a variety of tasks. That can include putting value on wildlife and their habitats.

All it really takes is a little dedication and a lot of effort on the part of people who are willing to help. And there are many out there who want to help. It does take money, but where the money will come from who knows. And for it to get in the right hands is a whole other discussion.
divewop is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 08:19 AM
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When the buying stops, the killing can too.
Kavey is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 08:24 AM
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You've got that one right Kavey!!
divewop is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 08:26 AM
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Just to clarify...meaning you're right on target about the buying of all these goods!!
divewop is offline  
Aug 25th, 2004, 09:08 AM
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And that would be "forage" for food, not "forge" for food in my post...DUH!!
divewop is offline  

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