Children in First Class

Jul 15th, 2011, 12:22 PM
  #41  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
I strongly favor children in first-class, and actually think first class would benefit from more children. This is because typically, first class is filled with lots of unhappy whiners, and more children would brighten the mood.

Also, the number one complaint that travelers have about their airline experience is not babies, but passengers who bring too much luggage on board. Children, on the other hand, have much smaller carry-ons, making them the ideal airline passengers by this measure.

Mothers and father who travel with children account for 30% of U.S. travelers. A small, entitled class of business travelers wants to limit their freedoms. Many business travelers are uncomfortable with the elderly, the sick, men with turbans, and so on. But the Civil Rights Act strictly forbids us from trying to bar one group simply because they make us feel uncomfortable.

A former football star, who is very tall, has two young daughters. He needs to sit in first class because of his height, but he feels discriminated against by other first class passengers, who glare at him. It is these passengers who are much more likely to be drunk, to use their blackberry mid-flight, to whine and set a sour mood. Here is my toddler's backpack (http://bit.ly/pDhX04) Much better than those uniform overstuffed business class carryons.
notesfromtheroad is offline  
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:43 PM
  #42  
 
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Lot of hasty generalizations here, unsupported by facts dare I say, from someone who has been a member since 2005 yet this is his first post...hmmm...

Do note we're discussing babies under two years of age here, not children over two who aren't affected by Malaysia's ruling.

From my personal experience, typically, long-haul first class is filled with lots of quiet sleepers, and crying babies (you do know babies cry don't you?) would wake them up. Haven't run into unhappy whiners myself. Plenty of unhappy whiners in back though, again in my personal experience.

Again from my personal experience, travel with babies under two entails more extra gear carried on board, not less. Of course, it's not baby who is carrying the extra gear, but mom and dad.

Also please note this isn't about the elderly, the sick, men with turbans, and so on. Please do try to stay on point...

I also haven't found the problems you mention with other first class passengers, no 'passengers who are much more likely to be drunk, to use their blackberry mid-flight, to whine and set a sour mood.' Most first class passengers I share a cabin with are quiet, keep to themselves, appreciate the peace and quiet and have lovely manners. Again, just my personal experience though. Yours may be different?

Thanks for the backpack link, Erik. Hmmm...perhaps now I see... have you been lurking on Fodor's since 2005 in order to collect material for your blog perhaps?
julia1 is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:02 AM
  #43  
 
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Anyone that thinks there are problems storing carry-ons in long-haul F (or really even long-haul J) hasn't flown long-haul F.
travelgourmet is online now  
Jul 16th, 2011, 05:58 AM
  #44  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 451
I have to say I envy all of you who get to fly first class. I'm pretty sure I'd take it, crying babies, et al. We're a couple of retired public school teachers who love to travel, but must go coach. I'm really, really happy we can at least do that a few times a year. Feel pretty blessed. S0-send me your tired, your turbanned, your hungry babies crying to be fed,the wretched refuse from your teeming shore-if I could afford it, I'd join any of them in that magical, elusive for us, place called first class.
1965 is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 08:05 AM
  #45  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Julia,
I have to admit your lengthy rebuttal is one of the strangest I have ever seen. I was particularly perplexed by the relevancy of this being my first post. I would hope that a first poster would at least get a welcome. You know, maybe treat me like a bewildered looking mother on her first flight across the Pacific to bring her 2 year old girl to a cancer clinic? Oh, wait, wrong crowd for that!

I guess the best reply is to offer up this link, which makes fun of the, “What, adults in first class misbehaving, no….?"

http://video.adultswim.com/family-guy/oh-no-a-baby.html

We are not talking exclusively about 2 year olds, because the Malaysia Airlines scenario has people in this forum wanting bans on 16 and under on domestic flights. Don’t worry, the Civil Rights Act would bar this from ever happening in any U.S. owned airlines, or any first world country. What bothers me is not so much the likelihood that this could ever happen, but the current and very real treatment and intimidation that mothers and fathers who fly first class get from some business travelers.

The NFL Football star readily admits that if he could, he’d fly coach. But the sheer intimidation he gets is brutal. He explains that he is a big guy. "But what's it like for a woman who is being intimidated by a coterie of first class males?" he asks.

I know about this because this has happened to my next door neighbor. She described the experience on a domestic flight as 'disheartening', as a female first class passenger repeatedly asked her to make sure she gave her 3 year old daughter 'drugs'. This was before the flight even took off. The child was perfectly behaved.

Flight attendents also readily admit that instances of children in first class causing trouble, or even keeping other passengers up, is actually relatively rare. But on the other hand, flight attendents across dozens of airlines report almost regular instances of belligerence, drunkenness or just plain rudeness from some adult passengers on nearly every flight.

The quality of airlines has dropped significantly in the last 10 years. This is not because of babies in first class. It is also not because of the TSA or the security lines, although they do contribute. In my view, what is directly responsible for the decline of the golden age of travel is the relationship between airlines and flyer mile junkies – ie, business travelers, often times in first class. The relationship between these two, the sense of entitlement that it creates, and the way that it makes airlines look away from the travelers and focus instead on the demands of the entitled, is where we will find the roots of the decline. Interestingly, it is this same entitled class that wants to demand that only their class can travel first class.
notesfromtheroad is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 08:14 AM
  #46  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
1965, you are the perfect traveler. You are the kind of traveler who makes traveling by flight memorable. Like you, I travel coach. But travel doesn't take lots of money, it just takes a desire to go and a little planing. And some of my best memories of travel are the people I met on planes, especially the ones who get a kick out of my kid.

Although I don't fly first class, as a father who often travels overseas with my toddler, I represent 30% of U.S. leisure travelers. The idea that a small and bitter subclass could try to limit my travel options is unfathomable to me.
notesfromtheroad is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 08:14 AM
  #47  
 
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1965: channeling Emma Lazarus is an excellent first step on the road to First Class.
DonTopaz is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 08:31 AM
  #48  
 
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n my view, what is directly responsible for the decline of the golden age of travel is the relationship between airlines and flyer mile junkies

I believe that you are completely mistaken. (Although, in full disclosure, I am one of those "flyer mile junkies" and have probably taken over 100 international flights in first or business using award seats.)

The biggest reason, by far, for the decline in the quality of air travel is the price competitiveness of the airlines. Although some consumers will pay extra for better quality, it has been proven time and again that price is the single most important factor -- by far -- for most people when choosing flights. So most airlines, especially those based in the US and western Europe, have found that they don't lose significant numbers of customers when they cut services/quality. That's why American took out More Room Throughout Coach, that's why United moved their call centers to India and the Philippines. Those customer-unfriendly moves saved them money, but it didn't cost them passengers. (The upside is that the cost of air travel has plummeted in terms of real dollars.)
DonTopaz is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM
  #49  
 
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Erik writes 'your lengthy rebuttal'. Mine is 246 words, 1195 characters, 26 lines. Your rebuttal to my rebuttal is nearly twice as lengthy at 478 words, 2300 characters, 43 lines. Hmmm...battle of rebuttals here? (No, I didn't count, the software did.) Perhaps I should start this with, 'your more lengthy rebuttal...'

And 'strange'? I am particularly perplexed by the relevancy of this comment, '...maybe treat me like a bewildered looking mother on her first flight across the Pacific to bring her 2 year old girl to a cancer clinic?' Bewildered? Mother? First flight? Pacific? Cancer clinic? Hmmm...come clean here, Erik. None of these apply to you do they? Strange comment, wouldn't you agree...

You admit you don't fly first class, Erik. You rely on second- and third-hand hearsay, rather than personal experience, to form your opinions. Risky, that. Too easily challenged. As a single woman with over 40 years first-hand experience of frequent flying throughout the world, both with and without my children, in all cabin classes, I can say quite clearly I've experienced no intimidation 'by a coterie of first class males.' Never. (Or maybe I'm just too dumb to notice? I do however notice a faint whiff of sex-ism, class-ism, in your words, Erik...)

(This totals 214 words, 1095 characters, 20 lines.)
julia1 is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM
  #50  
 
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Don’t worry, the Civil Rights Act would bar this from ever happening in any U.S. owned airlines, or any first world country.

Children are not a protected class under the Civil Rights Act. And aviation isn't governed by the act. As far as I know, there is no law requiring US carriers to transport children on their planes.

The quality of airlines has dropped significantly in the last 10 years.

Strongly disagree. As evidenced by this:

http://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/fl...ith-us/suites/

Or this:

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...irst/seat.aspx

Or, if in coach, this:

http://www.delta.com/traveling_check...ucts/wi-fi.jsp

Or even this:

http://www.ryanair.com/en/cheap-lond...rlands-flights

This is the golden age of travel. The range of options is much better, and the advent of flat beds, alone, means business class and first class readily eclipse the product offered not too long ago. And the entry price point for air travel is incredibly low, making it one of the best bargains available. Sure, they no longer serve lousy food, but the proliferation of technology, both that offered by the airlines, as well as that which we carry on ourselves, offers unprecedented levels of options for passing the time.
travelgourmet is online now  
Jul 16th, 2011, 10:35 AM
  #51  
 
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Posts: 451
to travelgourmet-Totally agree. No way my hubby and I could afford to travel as much as we do were it not for the reasonably priced flights (and cruises and Trafalgar bus tours.) We take our own snacks on U.S. flights, and get more than enough to eat on internationals. And I may get flamed for writing this-Whatever needs to happen to keep us safe when flying is also OK with us. Don't intend to hijack this post, but just saying.
1965 is offline  
Jul 16th, 2011, 10:47 AM
  #52  
 
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to DonTapaz-I hope we ARE on the road to 1st class. My husband will not even consider flying to Australia unless we can some day go 1st class.The really,REALLY long flight from Dallas is out of the question for him in coach.I think I could handle going coach.People do it all the time.Not everyone flying to Australia is flying 1st class.Maybe some day.
1965 is offline  
Jul 17th, 2011, 03:47 AM
  #53  
 
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1965... you're right. Australia is a night mare for flights as they are so long. I would never survive the Dallas to Oz flight in economy. It is just too long.
MissGreen is offline  
Jul 17th, 2011, 11:40 AM
  #54  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Bam, Julia! She shoots, she scores! Spot-on rebuttal.

I'd say that's definitely a 2 to 0 scorecard you've got going with notes.

I look forward to watching this play out. Pass the popcorn!
filmwill is offline  
Jul 29th, 2011, 12:06 PM
  #55  
LT
 
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I concur with filmwill. Julia, you are spot on!

And notesfromtheroad, what you seem incapable of realizing is that unfortunately, most of today's parents have little, if any common sense, and have completely forgotten the meaning of the word "propriety." In other words, just because you CAN take your children somewhere does not mean you SHOULD. Your children will have a lifetime to enjoy First or Business Class, white-tablecloth restaurants, wineries, bars, R-rated movies, and more WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS. YOU made the decision to have children. And part of that decision includes sacrificing your "single" ways.

Considering the tremendous outpouring of support for the recent decision by a Pittsburgh restauranteur to ban children from his establishment, I'd say that there are plenty of others who feel the same as I. And, in case you're wondering, I don't "hate" children. What I do hate is clueless, lazy, time-out chair supporting, selfish, thoughtless parents who allow their children to run wild.
LT is offline  
Jul 30th, 2011, 10:06 PM
  #56  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 41
I can't believe how overblown this issue is, by people on both sides. Folks, we're talking about one airline, and not even on all of that airline's aircraft. And besides, the ban extends only to babies under two, not to children. Some people in this thread talk about this as if it were the start of a trend. It isn't.
suranyi is offline  
Jul 31st, 2011, 08:46 AM
  #57  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Well, suranyl, we could also discuss whether children in first class should be allowed to recline!
NoFlyZone is offline  
Aug 3rd, 2011, 02:28 PM
  #58  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5
Airline have to think about the majority passengers.
If some complaints are coming like this i don't think its bad. If you love your kid you can do this i think.
johnvegan is offline  

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