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May 31st, 2007, 07:30 AM
#61
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Thank you for the suggestions regarding the sort of features that would strengthen the forums, the Africa forum specifically. Fodor's has been using this platform since its inception in 1998; we are certainly aware of the limitations of our current set-up and we are always curious to hear from our users regarding the sort of features they would like to see as we look to possible ambitious upgrades for the Forums.
We remain committed to keeping the forums as free as possible of any advertising. The Africa forum is a particularly special forum---we recognize the contributions of all its members--travelers and travelers who happen to be agents alike.
At this time, agents are not allowed to post the names of their companies, nor are they allowed to include a business email next to their screen name. While we value the honesty that comes from full disclosure, we have found that policies allowing for upfront naming (ex. I work for ___) has only encouraged advertising in the various other forums---consistency then becoming an issue.
Still, we certainly wish to provide a system that equips users with the tools they need to ascertain the legitimacy of a poster. Your signature and icon ideas above are certainly valid---and are noted.
Should you have any other ideas please feel free to email them to us them at [email protected] with Forums and the like in the subject line.
I'll also post a "brainstorm" post in the Lounge should anyone want to share ideas there.
We remain committed to keeping the forums as free as possible of any advertising. The Africa forum is a particularly special forum---we recognize the contributions of all its members--travelers and travelers who happen to be agents alike.
At this time, agents are not allowed to post the names of their companies, nor are they allowed to include a business email next to their screen name. While we value the honesty that comes from full disclosure, we have found that policies allowing for upfront naming (ex. I work for ___) has only encouraged advertising in the various other forums---consistency then becoming an issue.
Still, we certainly wish to provide a system that equips users with the tools they need to ascertain the legitimacy of a poster. Your signature and icon ideas above are certainly valid---and are noted.
Should you have any other ideas please feel free to email them to us them at [email protected] with Forums and the like in the subject line.
I'll also post a "brainstorm" post in the Lounge should anyone want to share ideas there.
May 31st, 2007, 07:41 AM
#62
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"Agents on the Forum, excluding Rocco and Julian:
NO FODOR'S = Still have a viable business.
Rocco/Julian:
NO FODOR'S = No business (or very nearly)."
While there are plenty of agents who do not depend on Fodors for business, as we have seen you can risk an awful lot by visibility here.
I'm not sure how it's turning out this way, but I guess I just don;t like people taking an admittedly bad situation and turning it into a smear, which is what I see at least one or two doing here.
Safaricdn has, in the past made exactly one post, asking questions about Botswana. If it had been a question about Zambia, I'll bet Rocco would have provided some very good answers. And, I love being provided potential itineraries. After all, lots of people have saved untold time and money by being steered to a more efficient, cost effective itinerary. And I do not care if it is an agent or not--BECAUSE I WILL COMPARE suggestion with what I was either thinking or had been suggested by someone else.
Since that first post safaricdn has not bothered to offer how his trips turned out, suggestions to any others having questions, but has taken it upon himself to take some really nasty potshots Rocco in particular, home-based TA's in general, and people like me, I guess, who he apparently assumes is an "alter ego," because I have spoken up supporting Rocco's contributions in the past.
It's pretty clear if you go far back into Rocco's contributions that he was what a lot of people are--passionate about something. And he did what a small percentage of people with a passion, like writers and photographers do, turn it into a business. Or try to. And, a large percentage of those don't make it. They fade away without a spotlight on them like this spotlight on Rocco. Once again,
That he didn't totally think through what is entailed in time, money and energy to make a hobby into a viable business, is pretty apparent. That he let other issues get in the way of keeping at least a couple of clients informed in a timely manner is also apparent. But, in the end, it hurt him more than the only ones potentially materially affected. And, I feel badly about that. But, also, getting really annoyed by downright smears like those by safaricdn.
Jim
NO FODOR'S = Still have a viable business.
Rocco/Julian:
NO FODOR'S = No business (or very nearly)."
While there are plenty of agents who do not depend on Fodors for business, as we have seen you can risk an awful lot by visibility here.
I'm not sure how it's turning out this way, but I guess I just don;t like people taking an admittedly bad situation and turning it into a smear, which is what I see at least one or two doing here.
Safaricdn has, in the past made exactly one post, asking questions about Botswana. If it had been a question about Zambia, I'll bet Rocco would have provided some very good answers. And, I love being provided potential itineraries. After all, lots of people have saved untold time and money by being steered to a more efficient, cost effective itinerary. And I do not care if it is an agent or not--BECAUSE I WILL COMPARE suggestion with what I was either thinking or had been suggested by someone else.
Since that first post safaricdn has not bothered to offer how his trips turned out, suggestions to any others having questions, but has taken it upon himself to take some really nasty potshots Rocco in particular, home-based TA's in general, and people like me, I guess, who he apparently assumes is an "alter ego," because I have spoken up supporting Rocco's contributions in the past.
It's pretty clear if you go far back into Rocco's contributions that he was what a lot of people are--passionate about something. And he did what a small percentage of people with a passion, like writers and photographers do, turn it into a business. Or try to. And, a large percentage of those don't make it. They fade away without a spotlight on them like this spotlight on Rocco. Once again,
That he didn't totally think through what is entailed in time, money and energy to make a hobby into a viable business, is pretty apparent. That he let other issues get in the way of keeping at least a couple of clients informed in a timely manner is also apparent. But, in the end, it hurt him more than the only ones potentially materially affected. And, I feel badly about that. But, also, getting really annoyed by downright smears like those by safaricdn.
Jim
May 31st, 2007, 08:38 AM
#63
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Katie
Thank you for contributing and for taking onboard suggestions for improving the format in use here.
I hope you don't mind me asking whether there is realistically any chance of the investment required being made to put into place the improvements suggested? I have been using the forum since 1998/1999 and I would be happy to sit down and really think hard about what works and doesn't work. But I do not want to invest the time that would take without a genuine commitment to actually making some of the changes put forward.
Jim
I agree with you that it's sad to see posts from people who clearly have an agenda - I'd say hidden but they aren't doing a very good job of doing that!
Rocco's passion for Africa and for life in general is one of the things about him I like very much and is often refreshing and exciting to read. Unfortunately it can also be one of his biggest weaknesses as I have seen him step over the boundaries that outline passionate discussion and into what I'd describe as ranting and personal attacks and overbearing pushiness. But that's what you get in a passionate person. The good and the bad. I think it can also be a weakness in terms of setting up a business because the excitement may cause one to overlook the practicalities and the administrative and business side of the job.
One of the things I know has happened is that some of that fire of Rocco's has lead to him not only developing some stellar relationships with people in the industry but also developing some very sour ones.
We saw in Megan's posts a well known agent who posts here making a sorry attempt to jump on a bandwagon and smear not only Rocco but also James and EOA as well. Perhaps the poster you mention is the same individual or another that has a bad relationship with Rocco.
I had hoped that there would be some simple and innocent explanation of the circumstances first outlined in the other thread (where it seemed some customers moneys had not been forwarded as they should have) and was saddened when that turned out not to be the case.
I have had arguments with Rocco myself but when weighing the overall balance I consider him to be a friend and genuinely wished him every success in his business - something we could all only benefit from.
So I hope you are not counting me amongst those you feel are unfairly casting slurs.
I say only what I see and do my best not to embellish or include any malice.
Thank you for contributing and for taking onboard suggestions for improving the format in use here.
I hope you don't mind me asking whether there is realistically any chance of the investment required being made to put into place the improvements suggested? I have been using the forum since 1998/1999 and I would be happy to sit down and really think hard about what works and doesn't work. But I do not want to invest the time that would take without a genuine commitment to actually making some of the changes put forward.
Jim
I agree with you that it's sad to see posts from people who clearly have an agenda - I'd say hidden but they aren't doing a very good job of doing that!
Rocco's passion for Africa and for life in general is one of the things about him I like very much and is often refreshing and exciting to read. Unfortunately it can also be one of his biggest weaknesses as I have seen him step over the boundaries that outline passionate discussion and into what I'd describe as ranting and personal attacks and overbearing pushiness. But that's what you get in a passionate person. The good and the bad. I think it can also be a weakness in terms of setting up a business because the excitement may cause one to overlook the practicalities and the administrative and business side of the job.
One of the things I know has happened is that some of that fire of Rocco's has lead to him not only developing some stellar relationships with people in the industry but also developing some very sour ones.
We saw in Megan's posts a well known agent who posts here making a sorry attempt to jump on a bandwagon and smear not only Rocco but also James and EOA as well. Perhaps the poster you mention is the same individual or another that has a bad relationship with Rocco.
I had hoped that there would be some simple and innocent explanation of the circumstances first outlined in the other thread (where it seemed some customers moneys had not been forwarded as they should have) and was saddened when that turned out not to be the case.
I have had arguments with Rocco myself but when weighing the overall balance I consider him to be a friend and genuinely wished him every success in his business - something we could all only benefit from.
So I hope you are not counting me amongst those you feel are unfairly casting slurs.
I say only what I see and do my best not to embellish or include any malice.
May 31st, 2007, 09:30 AM
#65
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"I had hoped that there would be some simple and innocent explanation of the circumstances first outlined in the other thread (where it seemed some customers moneys had not been forwarded as they should have) and was saddened when that turned out not to be the case."
Kavey has put it well. This was my concern, and also why I was troubled by the deleted posts on the other thread. The posters (the real ones, not the slandering you-know-whos) had legitimate worries. If they "found" Destiny Africa through this forum, it's only logical that they might ask questions about problems here too, given that other people have traveled and recommended the company.
When East Africa travelers weren't getting responses from Good Earth and Eastern and Southern, for example, they asked here if others had heard from Narry and/or Serah.
In any case, I hope that everything works out for those booking with the Big R's company.
Kavey has put it well. This was my concern, and also why I was troubled by the deleted posts on the other thread. The posters (the real ones, not the slandering you-know-whos) had legitimate worries. If they "found" Destiny Africa through this forum, it's only logical that they might ask questions about problems here too, given that other people have traveled and recommended the company.
When East Africa travelers weren't getting responses from Good Earth and Eastern and Southern, for example, they asked here if others had heard from Narry and/or Serah.
In any case, I hope that everything works out for those booking with the Big R's company.
May 31st, 2007, 09:32 AM
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I'm sorry Kavey, no. I should have been more specific and referred only to safaricdn, because that's what triggered me to respond.
I really do wish this whole discussion would devolve/disappear, and that it go where it should--between Rocco and his clients--with, maybe, hopefully, their stories of great trips when they return.
About passion: I love to fish, and have since my earliest memories. I once entertained buying a bait and tackle store, but then my brain's left side kicked in and I realized how stupid an idea it was. Then, being a fishing guide seemed like a nice sideline. Ha! I've been out enough with guides to now know what a tough job that is. Big, up front capital expense plus ongoing operation and maintenance. Up at 3 a.m., long drive, then dealing all day with clients, who, sometimes, you would rather not be around. Then there's the vagaries of nature and luck as to whether there's any fish to be caught. Finally, stringent bonding, insurance, and licencing requirements. I can only barely imagine what Eben has to go through to keep his operation going. Or camp owner/operators.
Jim
I really do wish this whole discussion would devolve/disappear, and that it go where it should--between Rocco and his clients--with, maybe, hopefully, their stories of great trips when they return.
About passion: I love to fish, and have since my earliest memories. I once entertained buying a bait and tackle store, but then my brain's left side kicked in and I realized how stupid an idea it was. Then, being a fishing guide seemed like a nice sideline. Ha! I've been out enough with guides to now know what a tough job that is. Big, up front capital expense plus ongoing operation and maintenance. Up at 3 a.m., long drive, then dealing all day with clients, who, sometimes, you would rather not be around. Then there's the vagaries of nature and luck as to whether there's any fish to be caught. Finally, stringent bonding, insurance, and licencing requirements. I can only barely imagine what Eben has to go through to keep his operation going. Or camp owner/operators.
Jim
May 31st, 2007, 09:43 AM
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Jim, I have a similar issue with photography. I have idle dreams about being earning my living from it but a) I'm not deluded enough to think I'm good enough (though I make some small change from selling prints) and b) I know too that the way I happen to approach it and what I enjoy about it would be lost completely if I tried to make a full-time career of it. Nor would I likely succeed on a commercial level.
As for wishing this discussion would disappear, I'm afraid I disagree.
Whilst I share the discomfort most of us do in discussing someone we actually know ourselves, I do think this is a legitimate forum for discussing both positive and negative experiences not only with wildlife, camps, airlines but also agents and operators. That shouldn't cease to be the case just because on of those operators is part of our community.
As for wishing this discussion would disappear, I'm afraid I disagree.
Whilst I share the discomfort most of us do in discussing someone we actually know ourselves, I do think this is a legitimate forum for discussing both positive and negative experiences not only with wildlife, camps, airlines but also agents and operators. That shouldn't cease to be the case just because on of those operators is part of our community.
May 31st, 2007, 09:49 AM
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p. s. "I really do wish this whole discussion would devolve/disappear, and that it go where it should--between Rocco and his clients--with, maybe, hopefully, their stories of great trips when they return."
And the wish for trip reports goes for Rocco, too.
He will be in two national parks across the Zambezi from each other--Mana Pools in Zimbabwe and Lower Zambezi on the Zambian side. He, of course, has written much about his trips to Lower Zambezi.
And, we had such a wonderful time there, too.
So, following the political situation in Zimbabwe, but also the glowing reports by visitors there, I am very interested to hear his comparison of the two countries, parks, and camps.
Jim
And the wish for trip reports goes for Rocco, too.
He will be in two national parks across the Zambezi from each other--Mana Pools in Zimbabwe and Lower Zambezi on the Zambian side. He, of course, has written much about his trips to Lower Zambezi.
And, we had such a wonderful time there, too.
So, following the political situation in Zimbabwe, but also the glowing reports by visitors there, I am very interested to hear his comparison of the two countries, parks, and camps.
Jim
May 31st, 2007, 09:52 AM
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<i>To me the best source of information, are the people on the ground, whom I can contact directly....
I seldom read something very valuable on safari boards...</i>
Johan, I totally agree that one must be wise and careful when making safari plans. However, I would have never gone on my safari last year if it hadn't been for the encouragement and experience of those who post on this board. I had a knee injury and resulting surgery about 2 months before the trip to Tanzania. I was about to cancel the trip, but posters encouraged me not to be hasty and reassured me that a safari is not rigorous. This encouragement gave me the strength and confidence to get well enough to take the journey. I've done lots of traveling, and Africa was the best experience of my life. I'm so grateful to the Fodor's Africa family.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all come here for our own reasons, and each get something different. I find the help, information, and support here to be wonderful, and am sorry that it has been somewhat tainted, but have no doubt that we will all rebound. In the meantime, Marc and Debbie, I hope things get sorted out and that we will be reading your trip reports.
I seldom read something very valuable on safari boards...</i>
Johan, I totally agree that one must be wise and careful when making safari plans. However, I would have never gone on my safari last year if it hadn't been for the encouragement and experience of those who post on this board. I had a knee injury and resulting surgery about 2 months before the trip to Tanzania. I was about to cancel the trip, but posters encouraged me not to be hasty and reassured me that a safari is not rigorous. This encouragement gave me the strength and confidence to get well enough to take the journey. I've done lots of traveling, and Africa was the best experience of my life. I'm so grateful to the Fodor's Africa family.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all come here for our own reasons, and each get something different. I find the help, information, and support here to be wonderful, and am sorry that it has been somewhat tainted, but have no doubt that we will all rebound. In the meantime, Marc and Debbie, I hope things get sorted out and that we will be reading your trip reports.
May 31st, 2007, 10:01 AM
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To answer your question Kavey, significant changes would require investment. Thank you for participating so long on these boards-I imagine that it can be frustrating not seeing the Forums change in substantial ways. I can't speak in great detail but improvements are on our radar in a big way right now.
Of course, the community continues to evolve---every day someone new joins that 3-6 months down the line is a regular poster. We recognize that it is your participation that makes the Forums what it is.
Of course, the community continues to evolve---every day someone new joins that 3-6 months down the line is a regular poster. We recognize that it is your participation that makes the Forums what it is.
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