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May 30th, 2007, 01:09 PM
#22
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Moira, it wasn't just the link.
In your first post you published the link and made your personal statement regarding using someone's services.
In your second post of that link you defended your right to make such a personal statement.
In your first post you published the link and made your personal statement regarding using someone's services.
In your second post of that link you defended your right to make such a personal statement.
May 30th, 2007, 01:16 PM
#23
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Now I am getting old, lol, but if memory serves me correctly, wasnt there a long thread on where Rocco and Julian were banned for promoting their web site on the forums. Many didnt agree with it, but a lot did, and wanted them reinstated.
I wonder, for all of you who supported them, will you feel foolish if some people from the boards here lose their deposit to Rocco?
I hope fodors takes this as a wake up call and bans all self promotions on these forums. Look at what can happen.
I wonder, for all of you who supported them, will you feel foolish if some people from the boards here lose their deposit to Rocco?
I hope fodors takes this as a wake up call and bans all self promotions on these forums. Look at what can happen.
May 30th, 2007, 01:19 PM
#25
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I am sure some people of the major safari companies will be reading this too and put some of those "so called" agents on their black list.
Safaricdn,
You have exactly the same thoughts about this farce as I have.
Matt,
By partly deleting some posts you could of that thread you could have a different understanding of what's going on although insiders or regular visitors of this forum know what all this is about. Let's delete this thread all the way or reinstate those posts that have been deleted.
Johan
Safaricdn,
You have exactly the same thoughts about this farce as I have.
Matt,
By partly deleting some posts you could of that thread you could have a different understanding of what's going on although insiders or regular visitors of this forum know what all this is about. Let's delete this thread all the way or reinstate those posts that have been deleted.
Johan
May 30th, 2007, 01:23 PM
#26
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safaricdn
I believe agents should be permitted to continue to post, hopefully while identifying themselves as such. After that, its caveat emptor, and whether someone decides to book a trip with an agent/poster would be up to them -- but hopefully if they elect to do so it would be after a lot more research than can be gleaned by reading posts on this forum. I have been on many trips, including a lot of safaris, since I began contributing, and learning, from this forum, but I have yet to book a trip with any agent that has posted on this site.
Michael
I believe agents should be permitted to continue to post, hopefully while identifying themselves as such. After that, its caveat emptor, and whether someone decides to book a trip with an agent/poster would be up to them -- but hopefully if they elect to do so it would be after a lot more research than can be gleaned by reading posts on this forum. I have been on many trips, including a lot of safaris, since I began contributing, and learning, from this forum, but I have yet to book a trip with any agent that has posted on this site.
Michael
May 30th, 2007, 01:31 PM
#28
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Nyama,
By now, everyone knows who is who in this story (and the words spread rapidly) and there are some vital posts missing in that thread so ...
Let's this be a lesson for everyone and I hope Fodor's won't protect anyone anymore in the future.
Greetz,
Johan
By now, everyone knows who is who in this story (and the words spread rapidly) and there are some vital posts missing in that thread so ...
Let's this be a lesson for everyone and I hope Fodor's won't protect anyone anymore in the future.
Greetz,
Johan
May 30th, 2007, 01:47 PM
#31
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I remember that...it wasn't about a website, it was about some debate over whether agents should post here. For awhile ALL the agents were banned...Eben, Sandi, and James (from Eyes on Africa).
I agree with Michael...I think that the agents should be able to post (though with Fodors rules I'm not sure how they can identify themselves...maybe by saying they are an agent but not naming their company?).
Obviously it's caveat emptor, but that's true whether you book with an agent who posts here or you book with an agent you found in the Yellow Pages or on the internet. It sounds like Eyes on Africa, Timeless Africa, and Africa Serendipity (whose owners all post here) have quite a few happy customers...
Moira
I agree with Michael...I think that the agents should be able to post (though with Fodors rules I'm not sure how they can identify themselves...maybe by saying they are an agent but not naming their company?).
Obviously it's caveat emptor, but that's true whether you book with an agent who posts here or you book with an agent you found in the Yellow Pages or on the internet. It sounds like Eyes on Africa, Timeless Africa, and Africa Serendipity (whose owners all post here) have quite a few happy customers...
Moira
May 30th, 2007, 01:55 PM
#32
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Many agents post here without mentioning their company. Their contributions are often most valuable. They choose to share information which is often more accurate and up to date than that available to regular safari goers, I find that extremely valuable.
May 30th, 2007, 01:59 PM
#33
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"quite a few happy customers"... I wonder how many of these are their alter egos some times?? If I was promoting a business based on these forums, wouldnt it make sense to make some "alter egos" on here, and later on post how wonderful so and so was, and how great they were at putting together their safari... I am sure some of you have thought of that?
I am not saying that travel agents should not be able to post here. This forum is about Africa, and for most here, their love of Africa. I dont think anyone should be able to post any agents names, or web sites. If someone wants more details, or a reference, than they can ask, and have it sent to a private email. What they do from there is their own issues. Just leave it off the forums.
Again, just my opinion...
I am not saying that travel agents should not be able to post here. This forum is about Africa, and for most here, their love of Africa. I dont think anyone should be able to post any agents names, or web sites. If someone wants more details, or a reference, than they can ask, and have it sent to a private email. What they do from there is their own issues. Just leave it off the forums.
Again, just my opinion...
May 30th, 2007, 02:25 PM
#35
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My vote is to move this entire forum technology to something that is easy to use, and for gosh sakes allows signatures that allows everybody to see who other people are. I don't hide what I do, but this whole site is pretty lame with how hard it is to find threads and information.
May 30th, 2007, 02:46 PM
#36
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Hi Safaricdn! I think that being able to send messages to other Fodorites to ask for recommendations etc would be really useful...right now you can email some people but not others. Maybe if there was private messaging like on Tripadvisor people could just ask these questions privately.
On the other hand, I've seen a lot of people post here asking specifically for agent recommendations, so maybe having the names is not such a bad idea.
Moira
On the other hand, I've seen a lot of people post here asking specifically for agent recommendations, so maybe having the names is not such a bad idea.
Moira
May 30th, 2007, 03:09 PM
#37
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why are we lumping Julian in with Rocco? As far as I know, he hasn't been dealing with people the same. And, I for one do not know who everyone is. It's obvious that Rocco and Julian are TA's and apparently Sandi is as well, although I don't read the East Africa posts as much. So, I have no problem with any of them continuing to post as long as it's not advertising. AS far as a home based business, caveat emptor...
May 30th, 2007, 03:14 PM
#38
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napamatt said:
Many agents post here without mentioning their company. Their contributions are often most valuable. They choose to share information which is often more accurate and up to date than that available to regular safari goers, I find that extremely valuable.
I totally agree.
Also, I think I might have been the last person to comment on the over-zealous editors thread before it was yanked. Exciting!!!
Many agents post here without mentioning their company. Their contributions are often most valuable. They choose to share information which is often more accurate and up to date than that available to regular safari goers, I find that extremely valuable.
I totally agree.
Also, I think I might have been the last person to comment on the over-zealous editors thread before it was yanked. Exciting!!!
May 30th, 2007, 03:40 PM
#39
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Well, gang, I am one of Rocco's happy customers, and it looks to me like this is turning into a bit of piling on.
It,'s so silly and untrue to claim he's gotten special treatment, since the reason given for temporarily kicking Julian and him off the forum was for doing nothing more than posting his email address after becoming TA.
I certainly do not condone Rocco dropping out of sight, mostly because of the effect it had on the clients he was serving, but also because, even though I have never met him, I think highly of him, and could see that he was damaging, perhaps irrevocably, his reputation and, perhaps, hurting others.
I had spent many dozens of hours trying to sort out our first ever Africa trip, and months before there was any offer of possibly booking with him, Rocco cut through all the confusing information, through this forum, to lead us to what would turn out to be the most memorable vacation of our lives. He answered all questions promptly, and he had no qualms about putting us in direct contact with the camps so that we could get verification that all monies and arrangements had been properly delivered and made.
I welcome inputs and advice from any source, and I can assure you that I assume that it is up to me to do the sorting and validating of any information, no matter from whatever source--Rocco, Matt, Julian, CCA, EOA, or whoever.
I personally have no problem with a small, so-called "home-based" travel agent, and would not exlude any particular category of TA. The main issues for me are feeling that whoever I am talking with understands our desires and responds to them. And, I assure you that that was not the case with the first few large organizations with glossy websites that I dealt with.
The second issue, of course, is the reliability of the agency. And, yes, it was a great leap of faith to send, first the large deposit, and then, the much larger balance.
As for "happy customers" being shills, based on the viciousness of some of the attacks on Rocco, I wonder if is as likely, or more so, that at least a few of the posters claiming that they were worried about their deposits were actually TA's happy to exacerbate Rooco's situation.
After all, the first few posts on the Where's Rocco thread were not by concerned clients but just people who were curious about his absence, me included.
And, Matt, I really have enjoyed your trip reports. You have a lot of wonderful knowledge about Africa to share. But, what did Rocco do to you to warrant such animosity? To start two threads to continue this, now getting tiresome, exchange. I wondered if you were a TA yourself trying to get back at Rocco for some reason, but by your posts, you just seem to be another person who loves Africa and has a great deal of information to share--like Rocco.
Jim
It,'s so silly and untrue to claim he's gotten special treatment, since the reason given for temporarily kicking Julian and him off the forum was for doing nothing more than posting his email address after becoming TA.
I certainly do not condone Rocco dropping out of sight, mostly because of the effect it had on the clients he was serving, but also because, even though I have never met him, I think highly of him, and could see that he was damaging, perhaps irrevocably, his reputation and, perhaps, hurting others.
I had spent many dozens of hours trying to sort out our first ever Africa trip, and months before there was any offer of possibly booking with him, Rocco cut through all the confusing information, through this forum, to lead us to what would turn out to be the most memorable vacation of our lives. He answered all questions promptly, and he had no qualms about putting us in direct contact with the camps so that we could get verification that all monies and arrangements had been properly delivered and made.
I welcome inputs and advice from any source, and I can assure you that I assume that it is up to me to do the sorting and validating of any information, no matter from whatever source--Rocco, Matt, Julian, CCA, EOA, or whoever.
I personally have no problem with a small, so-called "home-based" travel agent, and would not exlude any particular category of TA. The main issues for me are feeling that whoever I am talking with understands our desires and responds to them. And, I assure you that that was not the case with the first few large organizations with glossy websites that I dealt with.
The second issue, of course, is the reliability of the agency. And, yes, it was a great leap of faith to send, first the large deposit, and then, the much larger balance.
As for "happy customers" being shills, based on the viciousness of some of the attacks on Rocco, I wonder if is as likely, or more so, that at least a few of the posters claiming that they were worried about their deposits were actually TA's happy to exacerbate Rooco's situation.
After all, the first few posts on the Where's Rocco thread were not by concerned clients but just people who were curious about his absence, me included.
And, Matt, I really have enjoyed your trip reports. You have a lot of wonderful knowledge about Africa to share. But, what did Rocco do to you to warrant such animosity? To start two threads to continue this, now getting tiresome, exchange. I wondered if you were a TA yourself trying to get back at Rocco for some reason, but by your posts, you just seem to be another person who loves Africa and has a great deal of information to share--like Rocco.
Jim
May 30th, 2007, 04:09 PM
#40
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Jim
The thread was started by Africaddict, who in roughly the 7th post then expressed that he was having difficulties getting hold of Rocco to discuss issues with his booking.
When I mentioned special treatment I was referring to the fact that only certain posts were removed, which leave a totally different impression of the conversation on the thread. It had nothing to do with the early issues.
I have no animosity toward Rocco, other than if he is arranging people's vacactions and taking their money he should be following through. I dont like the way he implied that his customers were not known to him, and then when challenged, changed his tune. As he did on another thread today, later deleted. I dislike the way Rocco is treated by the editors, posts were deleted that give a misleading and incomplete picture.
To me, Rocco has always had lots of great information about Zambia, but he has used this board to promote his business, while apparently doing very little other marketing, all with the consent of the editors here.
A lot of information came up today and much of it has been suppressed, thats what I dont like.
The thread was started by Africaddict, who in roughly the 7th post then expressed that he was having difficulties getting hold of Rocco to discuss issues with his booking.
When I mentioned special treatment I was referring to the fact that only certain posts were removed, which leave a totally different impression of the conversation on the thread. It had nothing to do with the early issues.
I have no animosity toward Rocco, other than if he is arranging people's vacactions and taking their money he should be following through. I dont like the way he implied that his customers were not known to him, and then when challenged, changed his tune. As he did on another thread today, later deleted. I dislike the way Rocco is treated by the editors, posts were deleted that give a misleading and incomplete picture.
To me, Rocco has always had lots of great information about Zambia, but he has used this board to promote his business, while apparently doing very little other marketing, all with the consent of the editors here.
A lot of information came up today and much of it has been suppressed, thats what I dont like.
