Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Africa & the Middle East
Reload this Page >

first time family trip to two of our travel icons - pease help

first time family trip to two of our travel icons - pease help

Old Sep 24th, 2011, 02:41 PM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
first time family trip to two of our travel icons - pease help

Sending a please advise out to all fodorians, we are planning a family trip to two destinations that have always been our travel icons.

Egypt for the usual suspects as well as culture and the renowned bazaars and Italy for the monuments, history and of course the food.

We are wanting to spend time prodominently in one (at most two) location(s) in each country so we are not constantly unpacking our suitcases.
We are travelling from Australia so to get 'up north' we will need a stop over on the way, we were thinking singapore or hong kong?

With Egypt, friends have suggested a personal guide for Cairo, especially for pick up from the airport as this is open to fraudsters (??), and to tour the pyramids. We usually are independant travellers but conceed that in Egypt would need to have a package tour or some kind to see to best spots in a short time and be a litte more secure. Suggestions here would be great.

Italy, friends have suggested to take an apartment in Rome and 'mingle' with the locals. we are eyeing off one near the colosseum yet at the moment thinking this could be a little 'out of the way' from the renowned steps and fountain. comments here will be appreciated too. we are planning to tour pompei yet are unsure of hiring a car or take a designated tour (ie to travel from Rome down to pompei and back).

we will be travelling in september for approx 5 weeks (2012)

so itinerary known so far is:

syd to singapore (hong kong) for one night

singapore (hong kong) to cairo for 4 nights (including museum and pyramids and bazaar)

cario to luxor (by boat?? 3 nights) do not want to travel by overnight train, then on to aswan for 2 nights for the light show at abu simbel. then fly to cairo then on to rome

rome for 7nights to see all and eat all!! travel (somehow) down to pompei and sorrento fly from Naples to sydney,

you will see days/nights left off this mudmap of an itinerary. becuase it is just that a mudmap a general run down of the basics open to comments and suggestions to what not to miss as we trust the fodorians and wish to absorb each country for the time that we have in each.

thank you, looking forward to your comments.
surprisealot is offline  
Old Sep 24th, 2011, 03:18 PM
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cairo gives one a very limited introduction to Egypt, and given all the protests there, it can be a bit chaotic. Here's what I'd recommend. Take a Nile Cruise, which will allow you to unpack once and spend 3 or 4 days visiting the most popular sights along the Nile. Fly up to Cairo for one additional night, and spend a few hours out at the pyramids; stay near there. Don't go into the city at all. It's just not worth it. You should be able to find a package tour that does all of this in a one-week or less pay-it-all-at-once package.

From Cairo, fly to Rome and get an apartment for at least a week. You can make day excursions easily from there by train. As for a stop-off, I'd think either Singapore or Bangkok would make a better stopover than Hong Kong, which seems too out of the way. But you might very well find a stopover in Dubai or Abu Dhabi to be more cost-effective. I'd definitely look into that. Connections to Egypt will be much better from there, and then you can fly on to Rome directly from Cairo and back to Australia on an open-jaw ticket (Australia to Cairo, Rome to Australia---stopping off in either direction in Dubai or Abu Dhabi).
doug_stallings is offline  
Old Sep 24th, 2011, 06:31 PM
  #3  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We too are Australians doing a family trip with both Europe and Egypt (but in December / January). We are flying with Singapore Airlines - we prefer Singapore to Hong Kong as a stopover point (have never done Bangkok). Initially we booked flying into Europe and out of Cairo, but after the unrest became worried in case trouble breaks out again and upsets all our plans. So we are now flying into Europe (the kids and I fly to Paris and hubby joins us later flying into Barcelona), and we have booked to fly out of Istanbul. We have then added in north Africa with separate fares (Barcelona to Jordan with Royal Jordanian and Cairo to Istanbul with Egypt Air - bought with Qantas and Singapore Airlines frequent flyer points). If North Africa goes "pear shaped" we will do a quick reschedule and do Turket instead. For Egypt we have done heaps of research locally and using the internet and finally booked through Lady Egypt. We told them what we wanted and budget and they helped us work it all out. Happy planning, and let us know what you decide!
PRLCH is offline  
Old Sep 24th, 2011, 07:56 PM
  #4  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
thank you Doug, hong kong scraped. Sound advice for the unrest....we wish to see the famus Cairo museum yet thats in the 'middle' of Cairo - from what I can make out and would be missed if staying near the pyramids - I think, though the need for safety is paramount. still will be ableyo tick off the big items though.

Thanks PRLCH for the advice, QANTAS vs VIRGIN mmmm?!?! was there any particular highlight that made you choose the kangaroo? was it based on price/destinations/comfort?

lady Egypt as a travel agent or tour company?
surprisealot is offline  
Old Sep 24th, 2011, 08:21 PM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Surprisealot, .... not flying Qantas (sorry, but I don't like them). Travelling Singapore Airlines based on service, price and routings .... and as we use them a lot we collect their F/F points. Only used Qantas F/F points to buy Royal Jordanian tickets from Barcelona to Amman.

Lady Egypt is an Egyptian based travel agency highly recommended on the Fodor's board ... we will give a review when we get back. They have arranged private transfers, guides etc for us - so essentially a private tour seeing what we want to rather than a big tour group.
PRLCH is offline  
Old Sep 24th, 2011, 11:11 PM
  #6  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
wow PRLCH that sounds great, yes we will lokk forward to your posting/reply on Lady Egypt. Agree with the QANTAS comment, must have misread your earlier posting. Singapore air we have heard is good - please place a comment when return. Would be greatly appreciated.
surprisealot is offline  
Old Sep 25th, 2011, 08:59 AM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Egyptian Mseum is large but chaotic and not terribly user friendly. You definitely need a guide there. Do go if there are no protests scheduled in the square, but this takes only a half day and can be done along with the pyramids with one overnight in Giza. You might also look at Casual Cairo Detours. Debbie the owner is American and can arrange for your Cairo guide as well as transport and will know if there are problems. If there are, you'll find plenty of other sights near Cairo but not in the city.
doug_stallings is offline  
Old Sep 25th, 2011, 09:54 PM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Doug - Thanks for mentioning Casual Cairo detours and of course attention to comfort and safety are important.
I do have to disagree with some of the advice you gave herein though.
Cairo is NOT as chaotic as those that aren't here seem to think from the news. The Museum might only be an issue on Friday, so plan your tour there another day...middle of the week would be good. And, in my opinion, stay in Zamalek rather than anywhere else. Most people don't understand that the Giza pyramids and the area surrounding it, is basically the Cairo/Giza ghetto. The only nice part of that area are the Mena House and the Le Meridian, but once you go outside to find an affordable restaurant or to see what something other than a 5* hotel complex looks like you will have touts on you like flies, and it is bad now as everyone needs money so if they have something, or someone to sell you something, they will be trying. (DO NOT assume because I said it is the ghetto that it is dangerous though) In Zamalek, it is clean, green, safe, and a slice of the best of Cairo. At least 70% of the worlds embassies have chosen to locate in Zamalek, giving it a very International feel as well as more security than most areas. It is THE CULTURAL center of Cairo, with the Opera House, various galleries, cultural centers, and more restaruants than you could eat at on the average holiday. There are hotels of every star level there for everyone. My favorites are The Cairo Marriott, The Hotel Longchamps, and the Mayfair Hotel (a Canadian managed hostel type) for back packers. One of the best parts is that because of the embassies, the touts almost completely leave Zamalek hotels alone, as the average tout can't tell you from the Canadian ambassadors cousin, and if they were to be caught harassing a diplomat, they probably wouldn't ever harass anyone else ever again.
My other debate with you would be the amount of time given to Cairo - There is much too much to see. If people ONLY see the Giza pyramids, they have missed some of the most interesting pyramids (and certainly the best tombs) in exchange for only seeing the most famous. Once you've seen the others, you will know what I am talking about.
To avoid the packing and unpacking scenerio, I would highly recommend considering a Nile Cruise. That way you can see the best of Luxor and Aswan, as well as what all is in between and only unpack once.
One thing that no one (I think) yet has clarified for you is about the Sound and Light Show at Abu Simbal. You won't see it from Aswan. Abu Simbal is another town/village quite a ways south of Aswan. To see the Sound and Light Show there will require either an additional flight from Aswan (Luxor or Cairo) or land convoy car ride to Abu Simbal from Aswan, and a night somewhere in Abu Simbal OR another cruise on Lake Nasr (probably the later is not something you want to add in for this trip, as they are fairly expensive and you don't have the time to do that AND everything else).
Finally, you asked how to get to Luxor/Aswan from Cairo and mentioned the train as an option. The Sleeping train is a good choice for the trip from Cairo to Luxor or Aswan as when you arrive-while it may be VERY early, you can be met at the train station and your tours can start immediately - the sites in Luxor open early. Going the other way is not as good a choice as you can arrive as early as 6 a.m. (if the train is on time) and nothing is open at 6 a.m., hotels are not happy to let you check in at 6 a.m. and there isn't even a decent place to go for breakfast at 6 a.m. other than expensive 5* hotels. If you can take the train TO Luxor and fly back TO Cairo, it works best.

Hope my ramble helps some.
Casual_Cairo is offline  
Old Sep 25th, 2011, 11:59 PM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,908
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am an Aussie and went to Egypt and Jordan last year with Lady Egypt. They were absolutely fantastic. Nothing was too much trouble and they were so reputable. I had a problem with the transfer of the balance of my tour and they didn't mind. They just said "pay me when you get here". When I did get there, their mobile eftpos machine didn't work and again they said don't worry, we'll try tomorrow and the next day and the next until it worked. If all they cared about was money and profit, it would of shown and the trip I don't think would of been as fabulous.

I flew with Malaysian Airlines to Kuala Lumpur and then on Qatar Airways to Doha with a stopover and then on to Cairo. I wanted to go on the new A380 with Singapore Airlines but found out that at some point there was a codeshare with Egypt Air and business passengers were relegated to economy. Not sure about that because there was no discount in the price. Make sure your carriers are going to take you all the way and there is not a codeshare with a different airline that, if you booked directly with them, could save you money!

We loved our private guides. You could do exactly what was prepared on your itinerary or you could change. I booked a few free days in to our 4.5 week trip so we could either rest or do something. It was great to have the flexibility to revisit something, such as the Museum, which we did.

It really was a trip of a lifetime!
MissGreen is offline  
Old Sep 26th, 2011, 01:33 AM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Congrats on your trip.

Do be aware that there are unrest issues especially

around Cairo that are way oversensationalized on the boards

By folks who have not even BEEN THERE

So rely on your consular advicories do insuremytrip.com

Firstimers do best with a tour of quality with a few

days in Cauro for the museums and the pyramids.

Then a nice Nile Cruise Luxor/Aswan

affordabletours.com a good comp site for this

ladyegypt.com also good reports here.

For Rome self guiding works fine last May I flew there

Stayed at Intecontinental Rome Ville $180/nt bidding

priceline.... It was great easy to train around from there.

www.virtualtourist.com good local posting for all your areas.

Happy Travels!
qwovadis is offline  
Old Sep 26th, 2011, 01:34 AM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Singapore or KUL works best for air stop for me

best deals www.airasia.com many others at higher price.
qwovadis is offline  
Old Sep 26th, 2011, 01:41 AM
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
seat61/italy eurocheapo.com ultimateiltaly.com

some good Italy Rome Sites

In only a week might do Venice-tourism.com Florence

Rome www.osita-antica.org with a little Pompeii if time

I NEVER wire money to locals have seen folks lose thousands

Stick with reputable operators and ALWAYS pay with CC/Paypal
qwovadis is offline  
Old Sep 26th, 2011, 04:57 PM
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lady Egypt gets excellent reviews on this Forum and they can put together a package of Cairo and a Nile River Cruise at a reasonable price.
As for italy, do not stay in the Colosseum area. Suggest you look for an apartment in either the Piazza Navona, Pantheon or Campo Fiori area. They are each centrally located and an ideal location for a visit to Rome.
Have a great trip.
JerryS is offline  
Old Sep 28th, 2011, 04:11 AM
  #14  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just came back from a four month stay in Egypt. The protests are always on fridays, that's the day that a majority of Egyptians have off. I would like to advise you on some places that you should visit in Cairo, now I cannot advise on Luxor and Aswan because I did not travel there, but I lived my entire time in Cairo, so I know the places to visit. This is all dependent on where you want to stay.
A trip that I would suggest is:
Day 1- arrive from the airport, take taxi to hotel, go to Cairo Tower for a dinner at the revolving restaurant in Cairo Tower (this is best at sunset), walk along the nile for a while, sleep
Day 2- Wake up, eat breakfast at hotel (if provided), take a bus or taxi to Muhammed Ali castle, walk around the castle and visit the mosques, travel a couple minutes to Islamic Cairo (this is where you will find the many many bazaars) then take a short taxi ride to Al Azhar park (it is absolutely beautiful, but near to sun set it is breathtaking! You can see all of Cairo, see the sun setting, and hear the call to prayer at the same time. There are restaurants and cafes there as well if you would like to sit on the grass and watch the sun set over Cairo), taxi back to the hotel and sleep
Day 3: wake up, have breakfast, take taxi to the museum, explore the museum, walk around the streets at tahrir (there are some bazaars and street sellers), try some traditional egyptian food, then walk to the bridge by tahrir (this is where you can see the cruise ships), taxi to hotel and sleep
Day 4: wake up, eat breakfast, taxi to pyramids, explore the pyramids and sphinx (word of advise, the people with camels will follow you and ask to give you rides, also they do charge you for taking pictures with them), then travel back to hotel, pack, and sleep.
The next day you can take a cruise to Luxor and Aswan.
I would recommend learning some arabic before traveling, learning the numbers is a really good thing and it will help you a lot. Also learn directions (aka straight, left, right, and back)
if someone greats you with Alsalam alykoum, you should say w alykoum alsalam back.
People do kiss when they meet friends (like in France), but in Egypt its same sex kissing, so do not be surprised by this.
If you do need to take a taxi, try your best to take the white taxis because those are the ones with counters, since you dont know how much the usual cost of a trip would be some taxi drivers will charge more. If you take a counter taxi however, you avoid that risk.
Egypt is safe now, so there is no need to worry, the only days that I would avoid Tahrir are fridays because those are usually days that people protest.
I hope I have helped. I hope you really enjoy your trip and best of luck to you!
kdelaurelle is offline  
Old Sep 28th, 2011, 05:47 AM
  #15  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Please don't miss out on a Nile cruise. It was one of the highlights of my trip. There's just something amazing about slowly cruising down the Nile at sunset. The boat was very nice, the staff was extremely friendly, the food was good and the scenery and just the experience can't be beat.

Go to the museum, it's mind boggling. Work with a tour guide if you're more comfortable (I went with a large group and had a great time, many people go with a private tour guide), but do go. The tour guide will be able to route you around any potential issues (such as avoid Fridays as pointed out above).

For the packing and unpacking, don't unpack everything each night. Just pull out the items you need as you need them. If you pull clothes out of a suitcase in the evening and hang them up, they'll be pretty much wrinkle free the next day. I put my bathroom stuff in a small bag and have a ziplock with my shower stuff so that I just have to pull out two small bags and I'm set, no hassle.

I really regret that I didn't have more time in Cairo to see the mosques, bazaars, etc. I saw the museum and pyramids in one day and that was pretty much the extent of my time in Cairo.



As for Italy, I stayed near Termini and that was handy. I was happy roaming around in the area, but there are better areas to stay. If you have time, I would suggest a trip up to Florence for a few days at least. It's an easy train ride from Rome (by the time you deal with airports it's probably around the same time to go by train). Florence is completely different from Rome but so much fun. The food is beyond fantastic.
Iowa_Redhead is offline  
Old Sep 29th, 2011, 03:22 AM
  #16  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I feel compelled to correct some of the statements that seem (to me) to be a bit misleading from the report added by kdelaurelle.
1 - Now this is completely my opinion - but I would never eat at the Cairo Tower. Go there for the view. Use the observation deck if you want, but don't eat there. There are any number of GOOD restaurants in the city to dine at IMHO - but up to you.
Another hint I give people is to go to the hotel (used to be the Grand Hyatt) and take their elevator up to the 40th floor. You will get a 180 view of the same thing the Cairo Tower gives - granted the Cairo Tower has a 360 view. The advantage to the hotel is it is a free elevator ride. The CT charges an entrance ticket for the elevator ride, and if you want to have a drink in the lounge upstairs at the hotel it will only cost about the same as the ticket for the CT. Nicer elevator, nicer bathrooms at the hotel.

2 - There are NO castles in Egypt. The area I think you are referring to is the Citadel. This was a fortress built to fight off Crusaders in the 12th century and added onto as time and leaders came through. The Mohamed Ali MOSQUE is inside the Citadel.
I really only correct this as I don't want people that don't know the city to come and ask to be taken to "the castle" and then when they are told there is no castle, they blame the taxi driver or tour leader because IT MUST BE TRUE AS SOMEONE ON FODORS SAID SO. ok?

3 - The "Cruise ships" mentioned on Day 3 are boats that USED TO BE cruise ships, have been retired, gutted, remodeled, and are now restaurants. These boats are generally stationary (will not leave their location) and have as many as 9 different restaurants on board to choose from. Some will serve alcohol, but not all. Check before you go, if that is important.

4 - You CAN NOT "cruise" to Luxor from Cairo. You can take a train or an airplane. Maybe a bus. But no boats are moving from Cairo to Luxor with tourists on board now. You can cruise from Luxor to Aswan, or from Aswan to Luxor.

5 - FYI - for those not understanding what a "counter taxi" is, it means one with a meter. Note that even the old black and white taxis have a meter, but they don't work. The white taxi meters should work and should be a fair price for everyone. Although never assume a taxi driver will have change for you. Expect to carry enough small bills or whatever you need to pay the driver the fee you want him to have, or make him wait until you can get the right change (if you make him wait a long time, expect to pay him to wait).

Again, thanks for your wonderful input kdelaurelle. Please don't take my corrections as critisism. I'm glad you had such a great time that you could share. I just feel compelled to set the record straight on a few points so we don't have first timers coming to see sites that aren't exactly as described. Your understanding is appreciated.
Casual_Cairo is offline  
Old Sep 29th, 2011, 06:41 AM
  #17  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another comment re kdelauelle's advice.
I would strongly suggest that you do not tour the various sites of Cairo or elsewhere in Egypt without a knowledgeable Guide. Otherwise, you will probably be just looking at things and not understanding or appreciating what you are seeing and experiencing.
Get in touch with Casual Cairo or one of the Egyptian tour companies recommended in these Forums.
Visiting Egypt is not like visiting New York or any large European city. It's good to have someone guiding you.
JerryS is offline  
Old Sep 29th, 2011, 03:29 PM
  #18  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have a comment on your question about getting to Pompeii from Rome. When I was visiting Rome once, I took a bus tour to Pompeii. It was a 3-day tour that not only went to Pompeii but stopped at Naples and the archaeology museum as well as toured a bit around the Amalfi peninsula, where we visited some other towns like Ravello. We stayed at a hotel in the town of Sorrento. There are several such tours leaving from Rome. You probably don't even need to book yours ahead of time, unless you are going at a very busy time of year. There may be one-day tours as well, but I'd recommend the longer tour. I so loved the Amalfi area that I ended up going back there a few years later, just to visit that area.
PamR is offline  
Old Sep 30th, 2011, 06:58 PM
  #19  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We used Quality Egypt Tours (http://www.egypt-quality-tours.com/) last fall after looking at several companies. We too are highly independent in our approach, but we felt we would need additional help on this one. They did a wonderful job and also helped friends this spring. W stayed in a three star hotel not far from Tahir Square for four nights. We also flew to Aswan and took a boat from there to Luxor. The cost was about $110 per person per day including in-country air fare, an egyptologist & driver, all entrance fees and some meals.
gpotvin is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
fourfortravel
Africa & the Middle East
12
Jul 23rd, 2017 10:10 AM
bluesphere
Africa & the Middle East
8
Jan 21st, 2011 09:24 AM
pisceanp
Africa & the Middle East
7
Apr 19th, 2010 01:03 PM
Tropical_gal
Africa & the Middle East
15
Apr 6th, 2007 12:35 PM
isis
Africa & the Middle East
6
Mar 1st, 2004 11:47 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -