Inakauaidavidababy

Wow, harsh judgement Chritina. Such passion. Do you have Expedia stock?

julies

The problem, as I am sure most people realize, is than VRBO has a zillion more listings than the other smaller, less-known sites. So, there are many more options looking on that site. AirB&B and Flipkey also charge the renter a booking fee, but I don't know how their rates compare for owners. My guess is that VRBO is the one that is now piling the fees on both sides of the equation.

sylvia3

"It's a business and that's their model. If you don't like it, go elsewhere."

BS. Rather ignorant of the situation, too.

Owners already pay a fee, this was not announced, but rather was in fine print, and some found out only through other sites and/or renting out or trying to rent a property.

It IS a ripoff, owners get nothing but grief from those who have to pay a gouge fee.

julies

It is bad enough for those of us who live in the US and are looking at US rentals, but I suspect that this is really going to impact international rentals where it is not as easy for the potential renter to just call the owner and arrange a private payment to avoid that service fee.

MmePerdu

"AirB&B...also charge the renter a booking fee, but I don't know how their rates compare for owners."

Listing an accommodation on Airbnb is free to begin, then a charge to owners of 3% of the amount of each booking. The fee to guests seems to be 12%, based on my latest bookings. Plus any tax they're require by government entities to collect.

Airbnb is the only one I use as a host and as a guest, don't know about Flipkey.

julies

AZVRBO--I'd love to know about other sites that have lots of available properties. As you well know, VRBO seems to have a near monopoly.

dwdvagamundo

Agree with Christina. Why should a site offering a service to those who want lodging that is generally less expensive than a hotel not charge for the service of finding and listing the lodging choices? Again, if you don't like it, don't use it. That's the virtue of a competitive marketplace.

sylvia3

You obviously don't understand VRBO.
1. It is not "generally less expensive"; it offers non-hotel accommodations, for example, homes and condos, and they can be very expensive.
2. The service is ALREADY paid for by the owners.

MmePerdu

I suspect VRBO figured owners wouldn't mind the charges to renters as long as it didn't cost owners anything more. If the reaction here is an indication, they apparently miscalculated. And I'm very surprised at how much the owner fees are and now understand why there aren't a lot of budget listings (as far as I've seen from my limited perusal of the listings).

What I don't understand is why renters have the ability to circumvent the site fee by going around them to book directly with owners. I'd think, as with Airbnb, it's book through the site or don't book. I've seen rare cases where properties also had their own sites but the prices seem to work out about the same.

When a guest books through the VRBO site, do they offer any guarantees such as the limited ones that prevent out & out fraud, as Airbnb does?

vincenzo32951

sylvia: >>1. It is not "generally less expensive"; it offers non-hotel accommodations, for example, homes and condos, and they can be very expensive.

sylvia3

No, I'm not comparing apples and oranges; I'm explaining that VRBO is NOT hotels (similar or not), but private places that owners pay to list on the VRBO site. There's even gradation on VRBO; if you want your property listed near the top of the list, you pay through the nose for that.
The through-the-site booking has always been promoted as a convenience (even a peace-of-mind convenience), not necessarily part of the deal.

ChrisJoeDickson

I can only speak for myself as far as using VRBO as an owner. We rent our property at the beach and have been using VRBO for the past three years. While the website is not perfect, it was pretty good for my purposes. When we first bought our house, we used realtors and paid a pretty steep commission for what we felt was no work on their end. We had an annual contract through VRBO that cost less than 2 realtors commissions and I had control over who stayed in the house. We fired the realtors. I take all the bookings which requires work on my end (that I am happy to do). We also set up on others sites. I try to make the prices as close as possible but if one site charges me more or pays me significantly later, I have to adjust my pricing. I constantly look at other properties to make sure my all inclusive rate is competitive with other similar properties. I want guest to be happy as they pay a lot of money to stay. I give people to option to save 3% if they pay by check. This way I can offer my lowest rate to everyone. My contract was up with VRBO was up the end of February just after the fees were imposed. I opted to go to a pay per booking option and set up an annual subscription with Trip Advisor. Their website is not as flexible but I am figuring out how to best make it meet my needs. The people I booked since the fees were imposed were willing to work with me directly to avoid the service fees. I gave them the choice. Now, I can no longer access people's emails until they book but will figure out a work around. I also think my listing will move down since I have been denying bookings on their site as I have been booking them directly. I think VRBO over estimated how much people were willing to pay for piece of mind. They also seemed to be the only company that will change an annual fee to owners and also charge guests. I feel for people who are in mid contract. My prime weeks are already booked so I am only booking weekends and such so cost is now about $100 more for 4 bedrooms so not too bad. My 2017 summer weekly rentals would see an over $200 increase without any increase on my part. Seems to me, reputable owners will leave and not so reliable ones will stay since it will be worth piece of mind. I do the right thing from the get go so my guests don't need piece of mind.

julies

ChrisJoeDickinson--

That was precisely my point. We have done tons of VRBO rentals, and have always successfully worked with the owners directly. So, this idea that VRBO is now trying to impose this fee on renters by saying or implying that owners are dishonest is galling (and expensive). I wish you well with the new TripAdvisor listing, but I have to say as a potential renter I really much, much prefer to be able to have direct contact with an owner prior to putting down my money. I want the ability to have a real phone conversation rather than just communicating by e-mail through a third party agent. I hope you do find a work around.

I hope that you (and any other owner who cancels their VRBO contract) will write to VRBO and tell them exactly why you canceled.

ChrisJoeDickson

I did let VRBO know why I choose to not renew my contract for what it was worth. One point I was trying to make and perhaps did not, is that each website is different depending on the type of contract the owner has with that site. With either site, in my experience, when I pay for an annual contract, I am able to get guests information up front and could speak to them prior to booking. Some people care about this and others don't. When I have a pay per booking account, I can only communicate via that website. Phone numbers and emails are not shared until after payment is made. I get this as the sites are entitled to make some money. Also, the sites have filters that prevent such information from being shared through communication on their sites. I am trying to share my knowledge as an owner to those that rent since the situation is not cut and dry. These websites are more than just classifieds. My calculations, told me VRBO was going to make around $3,000 from my guests without any benefit. VRBO was also increasing their advertising that was supposed to get me more business. For the most part we have been able to fully book house from June to October previously so I could see no benefit.

julies

I didn't realize that part of the ability to communicate difference is when there is a pay-per-booking contract rather than just a listing contract. Thanks for clarifying.

MmePerdu

Yes. thanks. That answers the question I had too.

One more, does VRBO do anything to verify the quality, existence even, of listings?

maried11

I really don't see what the big deal is. I always use VRBO for checking and then contact the owner directly and work directly with them. Some use cc's or some use email transfers, cheques, etc., but we never pay via VRBO< so doesn't affect me any People need to chill.

MmePerdu

"People need to chill."

Yes, quite right, especially those who use the word "chill".

ChrisJoeDickson

I honestly don't remember if they verified the listing when it was first placed 2 years ago. Since I switched my listing from pay per booking to annual at Trip Advisor, they did a verification, which I thought was strange since my property had been listed there for 2 years. They said it was because they were sharing contact info up front not after booking. If you don't actually speak to owner, even a few back and forth emails should get you a feel for the owner and of course reviews. The scams I have run across are usually from foreigners. Their conversations make very little sense. A giveaway is if you ask them straight forward questions, they will not answer them but redirect you. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.....

For VRBO with annual contracts, you can work outside the VRBO system to avoid the fee. Works for most I would think. It just makes the process more cumbersome for owners and guests that like to do everything online.

If VRBO owner pays by booking and does not receive contact information upfront, I was able to verify with VRBO this week that phone numbers and address can be sent through their system and not be filtered out (Trip Advisor filters this info out and sends you email warnings when you try to send such messages so I suspect that this may happen through VRBO at some point as some filters are in place). This will allow people to work outside of the system.

The downside to working outside the system is that the process becomes more labor intensive for the owner instead of it all be handled through the website. I am hoping there is a reasonable priced app that might perform like the VRBO site just without the listing feature. If anyone knows of such, please share.

mboynton

I am an owner and traveler.... the work around for fee avoidance will only be available for some/all of the remainder of 2016. VRBO will/is hiding contact info on the dashboard until payment is made to prevent direct contact. Guests will be obliged to provide their credit card to VRBO when inquiring or pressing "book it now" in order to "assure they are protected." From owner chatter, it appears roll out is regional, but VRBO will shortly collect this fee even if you pay the owner direct. Owners have filed a class action law suit this week. Roll out was badly handled (most of us found out from our established guests who called to ask what the service fee was for) and there are now changes in the listing algorithm that ignore placement representations made by the company as recently as January when some owners paid $1500/yr for platinum (top of list) exposure. Instead, properties are now ranked (at least in part) by the degree of their owner's compliance with VRBO's new operational requirements. For example, Owners who decline the "book it now" button are pushed down the list on the rationale that EVERY guest prefers an instant booking commitment. Owners have only 24 hours to respond, or the inquiry defaults to decline. For many of us, immediate YES is possible only for a known party, matching on perfect dates, which is rarely what the customer asks for, and can lead to later confusion. In my own market (small resort town, w/ year round residents nearby), it is VERY important for me to screen guests, and I will never book a property without speaking or emailing extensively with them. Christina is right, guests will become resigned to the markup, and owners are free to ditch VRBO. Many of us will. VRBO/HA will continue to operate even if tens of thousands of owners migrate away. Some will go back to web sites we had years ago; others are already headed toward TripAdvisors Vacation Home Rental.com or to Home Escape. Even Craigslist is getting some play. Bottom line is that under Expedia, going forward VRBO/HA WILL tap both the Owner and the Guest for fees, and seek to impose new performance burdens on owners that guests do not value and/or owners cannot or will not provide.