DEAREST SAN FRANCISCO EXPERTS:

YIKES! Our son Rusty is going to San Francisco with his girlfriend - she gave the flight to him as a graduation gift and they're staying with her aunt and uncle so lodging isn't a problem. (THANKFULLY!!!! SIGH....)

However, after reading so many threads here, could some of you experts tell me where specifically they should avoid?

We have been there three times on our Western Adventure Road Trip Vacations, most recently in July 2001. They WILL be with the aunt and uncle sometimes, but certainly not always. A side trip will be to Yosemite, which we're totally cool with.

Also, can recommend any INEXPENSIVE restaurants for them, with the SF flavor. A recent thread of 'inexpensive restaurants' is still a little too pricey for them, altho he DID write down several names.

(Yes, we've done a THOROUGH search here, and he took copious notes, as all good Griswolds do, ROFLMBO)

Ok, thanks in advance VERY much for your thoughtful, KIND, and non-bashing replies.....
while we're well aware of the homeless problem there, (its tough not to be) we STILL love LOVE SF and are excited for them to go. I wanna go, too!!!!

ellen

Oh, and the girlfriends' aunt and uncle live in Sacramento, so i'm sure you, my Fodorite Friends, know more than they do.

They're also giving the kids use of a car for the week. Like i said, we wanna go too!!!!

TIA!

Kal should be back tomorrow or rather later today from the great race! He should be able to tell you more about Sacramento than any of us SFers. What do they want to see and do It will be a bit of a trip if they want to come to SF for the day and drive back to Sacramento. Are they young enough to stay in hostels? I'd say if so they should check out the hostel in Point Reyes and definitely spend some time exploring that beautiful spot. They might also venture along the Russian River out to Bodega/Jenner and try camping at Salt Point State Park.
I'd say have them check out MOMA in SF, the Haight & the Mission for good cheap food. They might also consider taking the ferry from Larkspur over to SF and walking around the Embarcadero and Fishermen's Wharf. Tell them to check out the Dim Sum at Yank Sing. It will cost more to sit inside and eat it. Yank Sing also has a take out counter with a good selection of dim sum. They can wallk outside Rincon Annex and be beneath the Oakland Bay Bridge right on the water. They might also like to check out the Castro district and Japantown. Our local PBS station program guide recently had an entire feature on cheap eats in SF. I'll try to find the right reference for you. In the meantime it's San Francisco Focus for KQED.

Ellen: How old and how savy are they?

Ellen: I just read your bio on the other thread. Oh my gosh..he's your 18 year old and flying off! Someone just said.."when we get older breakfast comes every 10 minutes"..ain't it the truth! So..besides being young..how savy is he? How savy is she?(BTW Kudos for being "cool" with it!)

Thanks Pam, i for your great reply and good info!

Yes, they're both book AND street-smart, and they've both traveled quite a bit. They've also navigated NYC and Chicago somewhat on their own, altho technically with a school group. But SF is in a class by itself!

I'm not really concerned about the homeless despite what i've read here; all cities have their bad areas, and street pple will hang where the tourists are. They're aware of that and will take precautions. Having said that, it would be helpful to know if there are any specific areas that are especially bad?

He is a planner, likes an itinerary (he almost totally planned our one trip to the UK)while she is not. His (and my) concern is that Sacramento is fairly far from SF. At this point, they're planning to take daily trips into the city so a hostel is a good idea. He also wants to drive to Redwood NP and Yosemite as they're family favorites.

The Dim Sum is a great idea, too! When there as a family, we eat cheap (to have more nights on the road) but they'd like to have some nicer dinners without breaking the bank.

Thanks all, for any and all info and ideas.

Ellen,

I understand your concern about SF. Areas that warrant caution are downtown (mostly at night), South of Market(SoMa), and the Mission, and obviously the Tenderloin/Western Addition(however there is no reason to go there any way.

Ellen~I thought I still had the "Cheap Eats" issue of Focus but I don't. See if you can access it on-line. It is the cover story of that particular issue which I think might be the March or February issue. Some of the previous "inexpensive" eats threads will also give you some tips. For now, I recommend they also wander around North Beach. They might try either Osteria Del Forno(no reservations) for dinner and Mario's Bohemia Cigar Store for lunch. Mario's is nothing fancy. They toast up eggplant or meatball sandwiches in the toaster over but they serve great coffees and are a North Beach institution. It is right across the street from Washington Square park so the people watching will be fun. They can also walk from there over to the wharf or to Chinatown. Regarding the Mission, while I agree one should be mindful of certain parts, others are both relatively safe and some others have been gentrified(Valenica Street was featured in Gourmet two years ago..) I'd suggest they check out the area along of Valencia Street(from 21st down through 16th). Valencia and 16th has some good places to eat including Ti Couz for crepes and La Cumbre for burritos(grilled steak). Besides which, it also has some hip type places to shop and explore. I'd say they should check out 24th street in the daytime(probably from Guerrero down. They will definitely get a taste of the latin community here. There are BART stations at both 16th and 24th streets. They might also like the lower Haight which has become a somewhat young/hip relatively cheap area. (On the maps have them look around Haight and Waller). They will find many places to eat here and probably some other places that will interest them as well. Perhaps some other posters can give you specific names of places in this area. The Castro is "gay" and will be safe and bustling all the time. There are many places to eat all along Castro street.( The Castro is close to the Mission.) They might enjoy the scene as well. The street car(I think it's the F line) will run up Market all the way to the Castro.BTW, it probably makes sense for them to leave their car outside of the city as they will be able to navigate fairly well both on foot and public transit. Parking at the Larkspur ferry and then taking both the street cars and BART once in SF might be less intimidating(and a little easier on aunt and uncle nerves). They might also check out the Vallejo ferry which will be easy to reach from Sacramento and will still land them in SF. Besides which, it's a great way to see the bay. Also, driving both to Redwood NP and to Yosemite in a week's time will be quite a stretch especially if they want to see SF. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

I agree with Kam on the areas to avoid, although I think the Mission Dist. would be ok for them during the day if they want to see Mission Dolores and have some Mexican food.

Oh, another thought, since they will be staying in Sac and may not want to drive in to SF each day and deal with parking and all that, they might consider taking the BART train in. They could drive into Pittsburgh, which I believe is the closest BART station to Sac. You could look it up to be sure.

Another fun way to get to SF without having to drive all the way is via the Ferry from Vallejo to San Francisco. Here's a link: http://www.transitinfo.org/Baylink/

Can't imagine driving back and forth from Sacto to SF every day to sight see.

The areas that I think they should avoid and indeed there is no reason to visit are the Tenderloin and Market between 6th and Van Ness. Oh, and 6th and Mission area. I would tell them to excercise caution and use their street smarts in SOMA, but I see no reason to avoid it. Same goes for the Mission, maybe avoiding area below Mission itself (East , I think). Both areas are mixed, somewhat like Chelsea used to be or Tribeca--former cheap areas that have seen an influx of new, more afluent residents and new businesses, primarly restaurants. For cheap eats, I suggest that your son post an inquiry on chowhound.com, the posters there will be more than happy to accomodate.

BTW since your son likes to plan, he might want to take a look at SF Weekly's website, it's an alternative paper which tends to have a younger audience who know about bargains and cheap eats.

All of the advice here is pretty decent I think.

The most interesting area for late teens, will be Haight St. There is a lot of cheap food there, ranging from pizza to Thai to Mexican. A particularly good place is called the Citrus Club. Immense pan-asian noodle bowls for $4-6.

SoMA is where all the clubs are, but I don't know if there are many all ages clubs left. However, they are all clustered in one area, and if they wanted to see a show at Slim's, that would be perfectly safe for them as long as they didn't try to walk there.

I don't usually recommend Berkeley, as I think it's a great place to live, but a dull a travel destination. However, for 18 year olds it might be just the ticket, as this is a city geared to that age range. They might enjoy wandering around the area near the University campus.

A possible resource for your son is Frommer's Irreverent Guide to SF. They highlight a lot of wacky stuff that appeals to college age folks.