I've never been in a sweat lodge but I know two hours
in a sauna would be asking for trouble. Is there anyone
who has done this"experience" have any insight?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33243288/ns/us_news-life/

I've been in a sweat lodge, but never for a long time like that.

If I am correct, a sauna is dry heat and the sweat lodge in wet heat. Don't they pour water over the stones to make steam, so more like a steam bath? I would think one would have to use the same precautions one would use for taking a sauna, steam bath, hot water bath, hot tube, etc.

If you have circulatory issues, heart issues, high blood pressure, I would certainly check with your doctor. Just use good sense and if it's too hot leave. I would think two hours would be excessive for most people.

I have participated in sweat lodge ceremonies for 10 years, sometimes twice a week. Yes, as water is poured on the heated stones, the resulting heat can become quite intense. We frequently have new people in our sweats and never require anybody to stay in if they can't handle it. Also, the period of time the door of the lodge is closed is at most 30 minutes, and during that time maybe the last 5 minutes or so does it get really hot. Then the door is opened and the lodge cools down. Water is passed around to drink. For 2 people to die and 20 others to be sent to the hospital makes me think the leader doesn't know how to run a good lodge. All the details haven't been revealed yet, but if the leader kept these people in that lodge for 2 hours, that is abuse and he should be charged criminally.

There may be more deaths. Three people are in the hospital in critical condition.

The Phoenix paper says 64 people were in the sweat lodge.

64 x $9,000/wk = $576,000

Nice haul for a week's work.

I wonder if he required medical clearances, or carries insurance?

That James Ray guy makes my skin crawl.

That Angel Valley website is a hoot. These people are raking in the dough, hand over fist.

Colonic irrigation anyone?

I've been doing sweat lodges since 1991. Have facilatated (poured the water), since 1997. I have done on the average at least 2 per month...with periods of time of everyweek...and once 4 days in a row fasting...but never without adequate water. they typically last 1.5 to 2 hours...the hotter ones are shorter...and there is no place for ego by the one who leads them...every one needs to allow the individual the right to make decisions on how much or how long they choose to stay in the lodge...i have never seen any one die or come close to dieing...the lodge are 4 rounds of about 20-30 minutes each...after every round we open the door and raise the blankets letting the lodge cool back down...anyone that wants or needs water between rounds is allowed to have it...three possiblities here...one never uses anything but lava rocks that are heated...any quartz bearing rock will explode when water is poured on it after the heating, two: smuge or incense is often put on the grandfathers (the lava rocks)they could have used something toxic...or the faciliator had to much ego and didn't allow the people to get out if they wanted to...it is sad...because this is a beautiful ceremony...called the inipi (ee-nee-pe)by the Lakota...we all know the word tipi--which literally means "living place"...inipi means "soul place"...the womb of the mother...the going back inside to heal and to reconnect...to pray...introspection...it helps us stay grounded so that are lives and the lives of our families and relatives will benefit...it is a tool...not the answer...with respect...we are all relatives...doc dave

I've participated in hundreds of sweat lodges since 1980 and only once during that time have I seen anyone who felt ill after the lodge. Turns out he was severely dehydrated and throwing up and unable to keep down any food or water, so I asked him to put some salt under his tongue and take tiny sips of water and hold the water in their mouth for awhile before swallowing; he made a speedy recovery.

I don't understand why you people feel the need to discuss this and judge Mr. Ray. MR. Placename, why does Mr. Ray make your skin crawl? Is it because you watch the news and believe everything that is said to be true? If so then you must be one lonely sad person. Wait, that's me judging, see it doesn't feel good does it?
I think it's best if those of you with your judging would go get a hobby instead of worrying about things that don't concern you. Also these people are grown ups you really think that they didn't know how to say "I would like to get out now?". I hope you all have a great day and go volunteer and do something good with your time.

Interesting all the brand-new posters who registered just to comment on this subject.

I don't know how you can think that cramming 60 people in a 400 square foot, 53" high, low ventilation, plastic tarp-covered "lodge" reaching 120 degrees is a good idea. Profitable, maybe.

From what I read, the Native Americans have been practicing this ritual for ages, using the proper materials and never crowding so many people into the space. They probably never charged close to $10k per head, either. Maybe that's why they never achieved "Harmonic Wealth".

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10...y5378668.shtml
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ..._b_315934.html

I solemnly swear I have nothing to do with it

Seriously, I was in Sedona when this happen, and the main thing in the local news was: the native people use it for their spiritual rituals. When the white people tried to copy-cat that, this is what happened. If you don't know what you are doing, don't!!

Just use the common sence: you have breakfast, you stay without food for 36 hours in the wet heat - isn't this a recipe for disaster? While I feel sorry for people who suffered needlessly, and even died from that, no one should blindly follow any leader!!

Mr. Ray said, "Because there are so many more questions than answers at this time I believe it inappropriate to comment further until we know more."

In other words, "My lawyer told me to shut the hell up because of potential lawsuits and indictments."

Well, Ray was right on one count. He did say that the weekend would absolutely "change your life" and he did Twitter (Tweet) this: ''Still in Spiritual Warrior ... for anything new to live something first must die. What needs to die in you so that new life can emerge?''

I can't believe anyone gives money to these phony self-help gurus, but to each their own.
I think I'll use my next ten grand to go to Europe for a month. No, I won't get richer, but I will never sweat to death at the Buza Bar either.

Thank you noticing that lowender, docdave, bob and lavender are all brand new, first time posters - curious coincidence - also curious coincidence that there is some very similar syntax used by all of them - maybe they even know each other?

While I reserve judgement on the variety of alternative, new age, old age, and non-Western healing methods out there, I think the first rule of do no harm might be a useful concept. Also, from what I have read this ceremony was the culmination of a week long retreat, involving food/fluid restriction.

So let me see - you put a bunch of dehydrated people in a very heated building - guess what happens. Really too bad - people seeking something - perhaps no different than what many of us seek in all sorts of ways - and to die doing so.

I have participated in many sweat lodges over the past twenty years. For the past five years I have been caretaker of a Traditional Indigenous sweat lodge. I have participated in ceremonies where I have sweated, immediately following begun an outdoor fast of four days and four nights without food or water, immediately upon completion sweated, had my first drink of water and taste of food in that sweat lodge before returning to the daily world. Never had a problem, done it several times.

These ceremonies are always headed up by a chief or medicine person (intercessor) to make sure all is done in a proper safe and sacred manner.

In all of our ceremonies our primary motivation is that the People may live, all people and the beings that keep us alive. In this way ask for help and health from creator. Thus we are protected in our ceremonies by our intention, the welfare of others not ourselves, Powerful Medicine.

Thank you,
Many Blessings

PS There is never ever, ever, a charge for any traditional ceremony. While donations are welcome and useful, they are never stressed.

If you are going to post several threads under several names, may I suggest in the future you not start most with I have... or I've and then repeat phrases - it makes me think these ceremonies are only attended by quintuplets.

Ignorance is bliss

gail, I'm sure it's difficult for you to accept the fact that hundreds of thousands of people participate in this form of prayer. To many people unfamiliar with Native traditions, suffering in this way, sacrificing yourself for your prayers to be heard is a very foreign concept. However, there are many, many people, Indigenous and non-Native, who believe in these ways. Just because you don't know about them and have never experienced their power first-hand does not mean they do not exist.

I sweat. I sweat as often as I can. I sweated Saturday night and offered up prayers to the people affected by the Sedona sweat. It's tragic what happened there - that people lost their lives in the name of greed. I'm sure the people who died and were hurt during the sweat were simply looking for answers. It's sad to me that our society thinks giving up their savings will give them answers, but it's even more sad that there are people out there who convince people of this.

What I worry about most regarding the after-effects of this news story is how the general public will view Inipis. The average lay-person who has never prayed in that way does not understand that James Ray didn't know what he was doing and should not have been anywhere near that lodge.

And, gail, my guess is the reason so many new posters are commenting on this thread is because it is a passionate topic for those who pray this way. Every single one of the people at the sweat on Saturday was talking about it. We worry about the repercussions of this one man's ignorance.

Apparently the resort owner thinks ignorance is bliss too. He tore down the sweat lodge before they could determine the cause of the deaths and illness. I'm "sure" this wasn't for legal reasons.

Resort owner Michael Hamilton declined to address the permit issue late Monday. His wife, Amayra Hamilton, said Saturday the sweat lodge, which was built with a wood frame and covered with layers of tarps and blankets, had been taken down.
Judd said no inspection of the structure was conducted before it was dismantled.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...OD1vgD9B9URIG0

Yea, that doesn't look suspicious at all.

The original poster asked "Is there anyone who has done this "experience" have any insight?" People with a combined 70 years of experience felt compelled to respond, in order to share our insight, in order to educate those who have not participated in this beautiful, meaningful, powerful ceremony. The fact that we are "first time posters" to this site is totally irrelevant. The fact that we speak the same language means that we take this way of life very seriously and are trying our best to preserve the customs of this way. It hurts us, me at least, to see this ceremony performed for insane amounts of money, by someone who obviously is interested in his own financial gain over the safety of the participants.

The facilitators of a sweat hold 100% of the responsibility for the well-being of the participants. Participants in the Sedona event were told that this was part of becoming a “spiritual warrior,” and it is clear from the news accounts and Ray’s own advertisements that this was not about celebrating the feminine or purification of the spirit—it was an endurance contest. People were encouraged to compete with one another for no other purpose than to return to the workaday world ready to do battle. Complete misuse of the ceremony.

I assure you, gail, these posts are not written by the same person, what purpose would that serve? I don’t know Docdave, Bob, bluebuffalo or madreadoptiva but I can tell you that I would sit in a lodge, sweat, sing and pray with them any day. We are passionate about this way because we see the positive value of it. It changes lives in countless positive ways.

If you have the occasion to come to Tucson, Az, Gail, look me up, come to our sweat, be educated. As a “First Timer” you would not be viewed as a “Curiosity”. You would be welcomed to our lodge, made to feel at home, instructed on the customs, your safety would be our utmost priority, it wouldn’t cost you a cent, and you would come out of that lodge with a renewed sense of who you really are.